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Message
re: Reagonomics / Citizen's United
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:32 pm to the808bass
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:32 pm to the808bass
quote:
Populism is an effective combatant to Marxism.
Populism appeases the lowest common denominator and demonizes the successful. Its an endless set of talking points and impossible to deal with on a rational basis. Populist rhetoric leads directly to marxism or other forms of collectivism.
Its rooted in fear and insecurity.
1
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:38 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Populism appeases the lowest common denominator and demonizes the successful.
You think that Republican populism demonizes success?
quote:
Its an endless set of talking points and impossible to deal with on a rational basis.
I think this is more a feature of postmodern politics than populism.
quote:
Populist rhetoric leads directly to marxism or other forms of collectivism.
It can. It isn’t necessarily so. The American expression of populism is still focused on individualism currently.
quote:
Its rooted in fear and insecurity.
That’s showbiz, baby.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:42 pm to Browncd81
quote:
I'm open to alternative explanations as to why wages have stagnated so bad. NAFTA was mentioned and I agree with that.
NAFTA and increased labor pool through “women’s rights” and unfettered illegal immigration are both downward pressures on wages.
The increased willingness to finance things on both sides, the lender and the borrower, also increases demand. Without 7 year loans on trucks, you don’t have $90k pickup trucks. Without no-money down (essentially) home loans, you don’t get $500k “starter homes.”
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:42 pm to Browncd81
I don't know why you're being downvoted. The main issue is that you can't implement these conservative positions in a country of 350m people.
That said, I'm not sure your focus on Reagonomics or Citizens United really makes sense. What you're really targeting is the conflation of conservatism with libertarianism or free market absolutism.
That said, I'm not sure your focus on Reagonomics or Citizens United really makes sense. What you're really targeting is the conflation of conservatism with libertarianism or free market absolutism.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:43 pm to Browncd81
quote:Read what I wrote again. I never said we should expect a pure government.
It's a guarantee that government will be corrupt. Our FF's operated on that understanding.
quote:What specifically in the CU decision made is "easy"? It's always been "easy".
Because they are bought, and because Citizen's United has made it so easy
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:44 pm to the808bass
quote:
Its rooted in fear and insecurity.
quote:
That’s showbiz, baby.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:44 pm to Browncd81
quote:
Downvote away if you don't yet realize we've been had by the ultra wealthy and still want to support establishment GOP policies. And don't think for a minute I'm advocating any form of socialism rather than actually advocating for more pure free enterprise
This is 100% spot on. If you’d throw away the nonsense of Citizens United and Reagonomics, this late addition to your post is spot on.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:46 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
What specifically in the CU decision made is "easy"? It's always been "easy".
Younger people don’t realize politicians have always been bought. There’s a whole FSLIC scandal that’s not really that old (but certainly older than Citizens United) that should be right there in their history book.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:47 pm to Taxing Authority
The Walton family makes money off Walmart right?
They also employ 2.3 million people who are also able to buy Walmart stock along with the general public. By the way, a 16,000 investment in 1970 would be worth 14 mil today.
In addition to contracts with thousands of suppliers who employ at least that many people.
So does creating economic policy that helps Walmart make money only help the Waltons?
Yeah trickle down doesn’t work at all.
Except for that part it played in creating the largest economy in the history of the world while creating the highest avg wages in the world (2020 data - we rotate with Iceland Luxembourg and Switzerland as a top four avg wage in the world- none are even close to our GDP.)
They also employ 2.3 million people who are also able to buy Walmart stock along with the general public. By the way, a 16,000 investment in 1970 would be worth 14 mil today.
In addition to contracts with thousands of suppliers who employ at least that many people.
So does creating economic policy that helps Walmart make money only help the Waltons?
Yeah trickle down doesn’t work at all.
Except for that part it played in creating the largest economy in the history of the world while creating the highest avg wages in the world (2020 data - we rotate with Iceland Luxembourg and Switzerland as a top four avg wage in the world- none are even close to our GDP.)
This post was edited on 8/2/22 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:49 pm to the808bass
2 types of 100% financing are avaible in most area VA and USDA. Va loans are the best loans a person can get but you have to be a vetern. USDA finances 100% in rural areas only and has strict income limits which in turn limits the purhasing power of the borrower. 100% of first time homeowner programs are state ran. They all have income limits based on the median income of the state they are located in. In Baton Rouge if the house hold income is over 54k a year you are not qualifing for one of these programs. super low rates have kept the real estate industry thriving for years. We are seeing the correction of that now. 500k starter homes are supported by high wages and low rates.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:50 pm to Browncd81
quote:Explain what you think caused this.
1. Gutting of the middle class & inability to raise a family on a father's income alone
quote:Nothing to do with your topic(s)
2. Offshoring. These guys that the conservative middle class opposes tax hikes for don't flinch when they offshore your manufacturing job
quote:Corruption can occur anywhere.
3. Corrupt crony capitalism
quote:And this is related how?
4. The wealthy have moved on to supporting Democrats and have stirred up the white supremacy narrative & ESG
You could possibly have a point, but you didn't make any in your post.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:50 pm to extremetigerfanatic
The problem is poor people are poor because they don’t know what to do with money.
Rich people are rich because they do.
People refuse to believe this but it’s true. Give a poor person $100,000 and it will be in the hands of a rich person in 90 days.
Rich people are rich because they do.
People refuse to believe this but it’s true. Give a poor person $100,000 and it will be in the hands of a rich person in 90 days.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:51 pm to the808bass
quote:
NAFTA and increased labor pool through “women’s rights” and unfettered illegal immigration are both downward pressures on wages.
The increased willingness to finance things on both sides, the lender and the borrower, also increases demand. Without 7 year loans on trucks, you don’t have $90k pickup trucks. Without no-money down (essentially) home loans, you don’t get $500k “starter homes.”
Fair enough. I'm more than happy to update my own understanding even if I leave up my OP and take a beating.
But let's look at things like government backed student loans. I am of the understanding the banking industry lobbied Congress for the government to back student loans, and here's why we have this mess with people with degrees of little value. We all agree we shouldn't be on the hook to pay for people's irresponsibility. Back to the cause - I am of the understanding the CU has made lobbying by corporate interests much easier and hence has contributed to problems such as this.
Also on Reaganomics. I'm all for the idea of lower corporate taxes to increase economic power and create jobs. I'm all for the idea that people deserve to be incredibly wealthy if they provide value to society and in theory this trickles down to the middle class. It is my belief that it hasn't worked as intended. Willing to be shown how I'm incorrect and update my understanding. And yes I do understand how feminism & NAFTA as mentioned plus things unmentioned such as the loss of God in society have undermined families.
At the end of the day my values are fair free enterprise and ensuring politicians are beholden to individual citizens, primarily families.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:51 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I don't know why you're being downvoted.
quote:haha
I'm not sure your focus on Reagonomics or Citizens United really makes sense
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:52 pm to Browncd81
quote:
Reaganomics and Citizen's United. Both are contributors to the cultural rot that undermines working families.
Amen brother... A fricking men..
Posted on 8/2/22 at 1:59 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
What specifically in the CU decision made is "easy"? It's always been "easy".
We just differ on the intent of the Founding Fathers as to whether pooling vast sums of money for corporate interests is protected 1A speech or not. I take a general broad view of the whole bill of rights, but I have major reservations that large banks, etc can buy off the government by having their political donations seen as 1A free speech. They clearly have too narrow a set of interests in the outcome of an election compared to individuals. I think that broadening of the understanding of 1A free speech undermines the principle of one vote per individual which should be more salient in determining our ability to participate in gov't.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 2:01 pm to extremetigerfanatic
quote:
The problem is poor people are poor because they don’t know what to do with money.
Rich people are rich because they do.
People refuse to believe this but it’s true. Give a poor person $100,000 and it will be in the hands of a rich person in 90 days.
I have zero problem that wealth flows towards talent. To think differently is to aim for socialism.
I do have issues that wealth can be used tilt the rules
Posted on 8/2/22 at 2:05 pm to the808bass
quote:
Younger people don’t realize politicians have always been bought. There’s a whole FSLIC scandal that’s not really that old (but certainly older than Citizens United) that should be right there in their history book.
Fair enough. Perhaps my target of CU was off. Overall though, my target is how the wealthy can buy off politicians in ways the middle class cannot. I do not believe the FF's intended this, and you do probably agree with me when stated this way
Posted on 8/2/22 at 2:08 pm to Browncd81
Trickle down economics is pure capitalism.
But we don't have pure capitalism. We have crony capitalism.
Therefore, we can't have trickle down economics. It doesn't work.
Trickle down only works if everyone makes the best LONG TERM financial decision they can, the one that will maximize their financial position.
For many reasons, at all levels of the socioeconomic system, people do not make the best LONG TERM financial maximization position.
Sacrificing long term growth for short term profits is 100 percent against trickle down. And yet... that's what just about every public company does.
But we don't have pure capitalism. We have crony capitalism.
Therefore, we can't have trickle down economics. It doesn't work.
Trickle down only works if everyone makes the best LONG TERM financial decision they can, the one that will maximize their financial position.
For many reasons, at all levels of the socioeconomic system, people do not make the best LONG TERM financial maximization position.
Sacrificing long term growth for short term profits is 100 percent against trickle down. And yet... that's what just about every public company does.
Posted on 8/2/22 at 2:09 pm to Browncd81
quote:
The right is undergoing a populist shift and at some point we'll need to come to terms with Reaganomics and Citizen's United. Both are contributors to the cultural rot that undermines working families.
Reaganomics / trickle down economics didn't work as intended in theory. We've rightly defended capitalism, however the super wealthy don't practice the form of capitalism we defend. Here's what we've gotten in return for our commitment to trickle down -
1. Gutting of the middle class & inability to raise a family on a father's income alone
2. Offshoring. These guys that the conservative middle class opposes tax hikes for don't flinch when they offshore your manufacturing job
3. Corrupt crony capitalism
4. The wealthy have moved on to supporting Democrats and have stirred up the white supremacy narrative & ESG
Citizen's United - this has put gasoline on the fire of corruption. The GOP is tone deaf to some middle class family working in a chemical plant in Lake Charles. They're beholden to big corporate and think tank donors. I challenge any conservative who thinks we got it right with Citizen's United to prove this is something the Founding Fathers would have supported in a constitutional republic.
Downvote away if you don't yet realize we've been had by the ultra wealthy and still want to support establishment GOP policies. And don't think for a minute I'm advocating any form of socialism rather than actually advocating for more pure free enterprise
3 things would fix this country overnight
1. anything stemming from the misinterpreted welfare clause is deemed unconstitutional: medicaid, medicare, all forms of "welfare" abolished, including federal tax breaks for and handouts to corporations.
2. commerce clause deemed unconstitutional
3. birthright citizenship deemed unconstitutional
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