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Started By
Message
re: Putin’s Invasion Had the Opposite Intended Effect - Russia Now Surrounded by NATO
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:41 am to meansonny
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:41 am to meansonny
It's ok to admit the US government has been in the wrong here quite a bit. We have allowed a bureaucratic class with Nuland et al to push us to the brink of total war and people just write it off? We pushed the expansion of Nato and interfered with the CIA like we have many places. Russia responded just like we would if they meddled in Canada or Mexico.
We should have worked to at least be more neutral to Russia instead of pushing them into the arms of China. That will prove to be a long term geopolitical mistake. They hold a ton of the raw materials that make the world run, instead of a bunch of overvalued Tech products and financials that back the US economy and could collapse at any minute with the currency. They are not nearly as weak as many in the US seem to assume. The world is moving to multi polar spheres of influence and our government class is having a hard time accepting that the era of American uni-polarity dominance is over.
We should have worked to at least be more neutral to Russia instead of pushing them into the arms of China. That will prove to be a long term geopolitical mistake. They hold a ton of the raw materials that make the world run, instead of a bunch of overvalued Tech products and financials that back the US economy and could collapse at any minute with the currency. They are not nearly as weak as many in the US seem to assume. The world is moving to multi polar spheres of influence and our government class is having a hard time accepting that the era of American uni-polarity dominance is over.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 7:43 am
4
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:43 am to TigerDog83
quote:
The world is moving to multi polar spheres of influence and our government class is having a hard time accepting that the era of American uni-polarity is over.
One thig is for certain, if the world goes multi polar again, Russia will not be leading one of the poles
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:44 am to aubie101
quote:
Western values are not really well received in Russia. They dod not like the whole gay mafia stuff.
The new Western "values" aren't well received by me, either.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:44 am to TigerDog83
The best way to keep uni-polarity going is precisely by expanding NATO to include Sweden, Finland and eventually countries like Moldava and Ukraine.
Russia has natural resources, but wastes a lot of them because that whole country is a corrupt mess.
LINK /
Russia has natural resources, but wastes a lot of them because that whole country is a corrupt mess.
LINK /
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:44 am to RFK
Russia has always been surrounded by NATO. That's why NATO existed.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:45 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
One thig is for certain, if the world goes multi polar again, Russia will not be leading one of the poles
I'd wager that they will play a large position. You don't command control of a huge portion of the raw materials needed for the modern world and just slip away into nothingness.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:47 am to Eurocat
quote:
Russia has natural resources, but wastes a lot of them because that whole country is a corrupt mess.
You linked an article about global warming, that's somewhat laughable. How can US maintain world wide uni-polar control when they can't even keep the Red Sea shipping lanes open from a group of lightly funded rebels? The signs of this order breaking down are there all over for anyone to see.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:48 am to Eurocat
quote:
Russia has natural resources, but wastes a lot of them because that whole country is a corrupt mess.
And now they are sitting on the areas with the resources in Ukraine. Which has been the goal rhe entire time. Like i said 2yrs ago but was loled at by the Ot Warriors
Then banned for a year
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Mexico is one of our strongest allies for the very reason Russia started this conflict: trade.
One of our strongest allies who allows illegals to freely flow through their country and into ours along with a shite ton of drugs including deadly fentanyl.
With friends like this, who needs enemies?
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:51 am to PsychTiger
quote:
One of our strongest allies who allows illegals to freely flow through their country and into ours along with a shite ton of drugs including deadly fentanyl.
What an allie
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:52 am to TigerDog83
quote:
We should have worked to at least be more neutral to Russia instead of pushing them into the arms of China. That will prove to be a long term geopolitical mistake. They hold a ton of the raw materials that make the world run, instead of a bunch of overvalued Tech products and financials that back the US economy and could collapse at any minute with the currency. They are not nearly as weak as many in the US seem to assume. The world is moving to multi polar spheres of influence and our government class is having a hard time accepting that the era of American uni-polarity dominance is over.
Germany had nice, cheap energy to be an economic powerhouse and we f'ed them over pushing this conflict and blowing up Nord Stream. Putin was perfectly happy supplying that energy to western Europe, but we couldn't allow it.
Also, Mearsheimer absolutely nailed it in 2015 about what was coming.
LINK
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 7:58 am
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:54 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
Germany had nice, cheap energy to be an economic powerhouse and we f'ed them over pushing this conflict and blowing up Nord Stream. Putin was perfectly happy supplying that energy to western Europe, but we couldn't allow it.
Yep. Their manufacturing stats are unbelievably ugly since the US cut their gas supply off. They are in the midst of a deep manufacturing recession that may drag the whole country into depression and people wonder why they can't muster more "support" for Ukraine and Zelensky?
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 7:59 am
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:54 am to RFK
quote:
For those who believe in a strong European security alliance, this is a good move and a historic week. I believe this will allow America and western values to prosper for years to come.
LMAO. Finland and Sweden joining NATO allows Western values to prosper? WTF is this delusional nonsense? This effectively changes nothing either internally or externally for the United States or "Western values." Western values have been degraded and eroded at least since the conclusion of the Second World War internally and this has accelerated immensely in the last 10-15 years. If you think Finland and Sweden joining NATO is some major event to safeguard or preserve "Western values" then you need to reevaluate your entire perception of reality.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:55 am to TigerDog83
quote:
I'd wager that they will play a large position
Why? All they can do is sell cheap petro. They can't project economically without subversion or military and rely on natural resources. Actual contenders like China or India will use Russia, but they would never let Russia have any say.
quote:
You don't command control of a huge portion of the raw materials needed for the modern world and just slip away into nothingness.
A. There is a large gap between leading a pole in a polar world and "slipping away into nothingness"
B. Russia has existed most of their existence on the border with nothingness and irrelevancy. Putin has done nothing to progress the country and instead values that Sino-halcyon view of irrelevancy.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:55 am to TigerDog83
quote:
It's ok to admit the US government has been in the wrong here quite a bit
Definitely, but that some run to defend Putin and parrot his talking points is weird.
Any peace that he agrees to now is just so he has time to regroup for an attack in the Baltics, or maybe setting up a “security zone” in remote Finland.
The war Putin is fighting started in 2014 and bigger than just Ukraine. Shrugging isolationism is just as dangerous as those who advocate for taking Crimea back.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:57 am to Draconian Sanctions
How much more should we send?
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:57 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
Germany had nice, cheap energy to be an economic powerhouse and we f'ed them over pushing this conflict and blowing up Nord Stream. Putin was perfectly happy supplying that energy to western Europe, but we couldn't allow it.
We?
Germany leads the EU and worked hard to get Ukraine to join. They see the value in a European Ukraine. Germany (and the EU by proxy) has a lot of self interest in Ukraine. Why are we pretending like Europe has no opinion or voice in this matter? They were in Ukraine after Yanukovych went Game of Thrones. They were supporting the locals on the ground just like we were.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 7:58 am
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This aggression was never actually about NATO.
What was it about then?
Posted on 2/27/24 at 7:59 am to BBONDS25
I don’t know what the number is, but if your goal is to avoid major escalation in Europe you have to make the project Putin is pursuing too difficult for him to justify continuing without boxing him into a corner.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 8:00 am
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:00 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Germany leads the EU and worked hard to get Ukraine to join. They see the value in a European Ukraine.
Can you quantify that value?
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