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Started By
Message
re: President Donald Trump's Manhattan Convictions are Unconstitutional
Posted on 6/5/24 at 9:49 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 6/5/24 at 9:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
And what if the associated crimes had nothing to do with federal election law? I didn't read the whole article only what you quoted but does he cover the other options?
It's either unconstitutional, or invalid in its face because of the whole "jury doesn't have to agree on the underlying crime" farce (among many other errors).
1
Posted on 6/5/24 at 9:50 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
purported fraudulent scheme
Oh I understand now. It can be purported and one can be prosecuted for purportedness.
Hello SCOTUS!!
Posted on 6/5/24 at 9:51 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Ted Kennedy didn't pay his hooker, secretary, for sex and she was rewarded by being left to drown in a river after he drove the car off a bridge because he was drunk..
Thats (D)ifferent
Posted on 6/5/24 at 9:51 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
know that it is a “out of the box” hypothetical, but does that change things?
That opens up the avenue for the defense to attack his credibility in a new angle. It's not going to magically solve the problem but if they can show with good authorities that he was the one who actually had the affair then it discredits the rest of his testimony.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 9:52 am to udtiger
quote:
It's either unconstitutional, or invalid in its face because of the whole "jury doesn't have to agree on the underlying crime" farce (among many other errors)
You mean the law? Or did your instructions? Or the conviction itself?
I've said a hundred times the non-unanimity of the jury instructions is going to lead to a constitutional issue. The lack of specifying which associated crime likely also has the same issue. I don't think that that would rule the statute unconstitutional or dismiss the conviction outright. The court would instruct these to be corrected and then send it back for retrial without the incorrect jury instructions, etc
Posted on 6/5/24 at 9:53 am to Timeoday
quote:
Oh I understand now. It can be purported and one can be prosecuted for purportedness.
I said purported because, although the jury has found it true beyond a reasonable doubt, I know many on here disagree with that allegation being correct.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 9:57 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Trump will still likely face a re-trial, though.
If he wins, maybe not.
He could have his AG turn the DOJ on Bragg and Merchen. They will find something, the tax code is always fertile territory.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 9:59 am to GumboPot
quote:
Democrats and the media know this but they just want the opportunity to call Trump a felon between now and the election to help get Joe Biden reelected.
Yep. This is why I fully expect Merchant to impose an absurd prison sentence. He will do it to make the crimes and the conviction to appear to be much more impactful to Trump election chances. This is most likely since it appears this is the only case the Democrats will have in court.prior to the election so they will go all out on it.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
or dismiss the conviction outright.
Could they? Could they call this what it is and stop all this bs?
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:03 am to loogaroo
quote:
o you disagree with Professor Steven Calabresi?
he disagrees with anyone that doesnt validate his worldview of him being the smartest guy int he room. hes a loser.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:04 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:Or... tax fraud, based on illegally leaked tax records (un-indicted, "imaginationland crime")
Isn't that the whole crux of their legal argument? That these misdemeanor crimes were committed to interfere with a federal election, therefore he is guilty of 34 felonies and not 34 misdemeanors?
or... NY state election laws (which he didn't run for state office so another "imaginationland crime")
They had a menu of 3 entrees from Imaginationland which of course a NY Manhattan jury pool thoroughly considered on all 34 counts in what, 11 hrs. total of deliberations (including lunch breaks and filling out the verdict sheet)
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Trump will still likely face a re-trial, though. The appeals are unlikely to dismiss the entire case outright.
He will not face another trial.
The whole point is that they want to say he is a convicted felon. But he isn't a convicted felon till he is sentenced and the judges says it.
The jury found him guilty but he is not labeled a convicted felon.
And they may appeal on a number of constitutional grounds for relief prior to the sentencing on the grounds of irreparable grounds.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:14 am to SlowFlowPro
I got a theory for that purported scheme, SC case cited as 1st amendment right says the if the purported payment doesn’t fit you must acquit. They would need something or someone in the accounting of, authority who gave directions to accounting or Trump himself saying it was hiding the billing of invoices that didn’t have a itemization of or mention of anything specific towards a payment to Stormy. A reimbursement or as we’ve learned over billing by Cohen would not fulfill any credible argument that something nefarious was being done, they would need direct involvement by Trump to charge him personally. The democrats math of 2 + 2 = 5 is applied here
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:15 am to deathvalleytiger10
quote:
Could they?
The only way I've thought of or seen proposed they could throw it all out was ruling the NY business records laws Unconstitutional entirely.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:19 am to thetempleowl
Re an appeal, read somewhere that a majority of the New .York State appeals judges have donated to biden's campaigns over the years.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
SlowFlowPro
I love watching all these google lawyers argue with a real one
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:23 am to Byron Bojangles III
SFP needs help. He’s getting dragged itt and every one he posts in.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:24 am to momentoftruth87
quote:
He’s getting dragged itt
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:26 am to fwtex
quote:
Yep. This is why I fully expect Merchant to impose an absurd prison sentence. He will do it to make the crimes and the conviction to appear to be much more impactful to Trump election chances.
If he was smart, he'd give Trump the weakest slap on the wrist possible.
This would severely decrease the chance of any sort of accelerated review during the election so they can truly tee off and call him a felon over and over again.
No jail time. No probation/monitoring. Like a fine and community service.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:30 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:
Isn't that the whole crux of their legal argument? That these misdemeanor crimes were committed to interfere with a federal election, therefore he is guilty of 34 felonies and not 34 misdemeanors?
yes, in violation of New York State law 17-152, which prohibits someone from using "unlawful" means to influence an election.
of course, Bragg alleged that the "unlawful means" were falsification of business records, which makes the whole argument circular.
it is all total BS, but that is the "underlying crime" that they claim trump committed to gin up all the misdemeanors outside the statue of limitations to felonies.
This post was edited on 6/5/24 at 10:35 am
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