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Political Ideology Based on Resources ?

Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:17 pm
Posted by volod
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
5392 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:17 pm

I have been trying to understand why northeastern states and Cali are solid blue and generally considered economically prosperous.

This is my theory. And I'm trying to be bipartisan.

I believe that location and resources play a big role in politics. If you live in areas where there is strong economy and a relative surplus of resources like food and housing, you have a stronger chance of being liberal (not necessarily a progressive). They have the capital necessary to provide better welfare services with limited impact to their capitalist endeavors.

The reason people in the South push conservatism is partly due to a lack of economic empowerment. The south has a larger percentage of poverty across demographics. With that many people taking welfare, more money from the working classes is needed. And since the upper class have tax break loopholes, the middle class pays.


I'm ready to elaborate and debate. Open Discussion. I'm trying to make this a learning experience so no need to be upset if you disagree.

Both sides are flawed. Liberals being more caring and wanting lower education cost and welfare safety nets are not inherently bad. But it should not be used as leverage to take money from workers and become means to control people's votes.

Similarly, conservatives should push hard work because it makes you a better person and helps the economy. But it should not be used as a an excuse for having little to no industry or use social conservatism to control others.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:27 pm to
Interesting take on the issue, and it deserves a better response/discussion than I can provide while sitting in the natatorium and watching my daughters dive practice. I will chime-in late this evening, after I put them to bed.

My first thought is that my Texas seems to be the exception to your thesis. Extensive resources, and we have always been conservative. Even when we had (basically) no GOP presence, we had two distinct wings of the Dem Party, and the conservative wing ALMOST always called the shots. Guys like Price Daniel, John Connally, Dolph Briscoe and Preston Smith would be GOP today. Ann Richards, not so much.
This post was edited on 7/12/18 at 5:38 pm
Posted by volod
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
5392 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:29 pm to
quote:

Interesting take on the issue, and it deserves a better response/discussion than I can provide while sitting in the natatorium and watching my daughters dive practice. I will chime-in late this evening, after I put them to bed. 


No problem. Spend as much time with them as you can. They grow up so fast.
Posted by CamdenTiger
Member since Aug 2009
62441 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:31 pm to
Everywhere I’ve lived, the poor inner city is Democrat dominant, and the rural areas are conservative
Posted by volod
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
5392 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:36 pm to
quote:

My first thought is that my Texas seems to be the exception to your thesis. Extensive resources, and we have always been conservative. Even when we had (basically) no GOP presence, we had two distinct wings of the Dem Party, and the conservative wing ALMOST always called the shots.


Texas is what I like to call "conservatism done correctly". It is the poster child for what most Red states want to be. But the success of Texas is also owed to its governance. Counties operating independently is far more effective and they don't rely solely on social conservatism for economic stability. They provide industries to sustain growth.
Posted by SquatchDawg
Cohutta Wilderness
Member since Sep 2012
14203 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:47 pm to
I think it’s generational...traditional blue states and voters (not radicals) identified with the traditional liberal thinking of the 60’s and the then very real anti war and human rights struggles. Also, there was a huge union influence as well that had a definite effect.

Southern states have always been anti government. This evolved to a more conservative position - regardless of income - as the left transitioned into a higher taxation, centralized control platform. The shift to the small government Republican happened even while the classic Republican became more of a big business advocate - which doesn’t mesh with the rural south.

The fact is very few voters really understand what their party of chiloice stands for and have mostly chosen sides based on momentum.

That’s my best 5 min take.
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:47 pm to
Badda bing badda boom
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140474 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:50 pm to
quote:

Liberals being more caring


bullshite. I'd log my volunteer hours with any liberal professional. Virtue signaling is not caring. Our church builds No less than two houses a year for inner city people. You know what all those inner city churches do while we work?

We care. We also want people to care about themselves first.
This post was edited on 7/12/18 at 5:55 pm
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
13345 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:50 pm to
quote:

Liberals being more caring


This is a fallacy that has been disproven time and again. Liberal are more caring, as long as it’s others making the sacrifice. To wit:

quote:

wanting lower education cost and welfare safety nets


What does using the force of government to take money from the producers in this country have to do with lowering the cost of anything? Administration costs alone for the federal government to steal the fruits of citizens labor, and provide those fruits to others precludes any possibility of cost savings, does it not?

Welfare safety nets are fine, but leftist socialist policies have made them a way of life, rather than a helping hand through a rough time. And once again, the administration costs, and bureaucracy created by these ever expanding “safety nets” are killing the middle class with crippling debt that their children will never be able to pay.

Being more caring with other people’s money is not being caring at all. Being caring at the expense of present and future generations, knowing that the fraud, waste, and abuse in these programs is rampant, is irresponsible at best. Importing millions more every year who will necessarily enroll in these programs through open borders and flawed immigration policies is unconscionable.

Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:53 pm to
quote:

Our church builds No less than two houses a year for inner city people. You know what all those inner city churches to while we work?
I worked on about a half-dozen Habitat houses when I was young and living in Dallas. My experience was that the volunteer workforce was pretty mixed.
Posted by BurningHeart
Member since Jan 2017
9520 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:53 pm to
Good topic.

Everyone WANTS the same things... meaning peace, no world hunger, comfortable lives, etc.

Where people differ are the means or feasibility of getting to this goal.

It starts with resources. An abundance of resources leads to having less responsibilities for daily living. This is because larger cities have a government department or means to take care of more of people's lives than in the country.

The more distance you put between a person and their own survival, the less aware that person will be as to what actually goes on to ensure their survival.

If everything is done for you already, then you will take these things for granted. At this point the natural urge is back to the basic wants... you want no world hunger, everyone to get along, etc. so you push for this and see no reason the government can't take care of it.

On the opposite end you have a country guy who doesn't have the conveniences of the city such as public transportation to take him everywhere, no abundance of jobs so he has to make sure his pans out, no home repair service, etc.

This guy has a different viewpoint of the world because he sees and lives the steps needed for survival. He knows that you put X work in and Y result comes out of it.

The NYC guy has a different formula, he puts some work in, the city services puts a little in, the public transportation puts a little in, the grocery delivery puts a little in, etc.

So much goes on outside his view that he takes more for granted and assume it just "gets done". So in his mind, why not get it done for more people (welfare, open borders, etc.)

This is also the reason business people like Trump can run the country better than a pure politician that hasn't experienced how an economy or business works.

To the politician things just get done, they never have to fully understand the nuisances of what happens to produce a result.

This can be a huge discussion, but for timesake I'm going to stop here.
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140474 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:55 pm to
I never said our crew wasn't "mixed".

Stop trying to be the hero all the damn time.
Posted by 90proofprofessional
Member since Mar 2004
24445 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:56 pm to
I think it's a mistake to try to categorize states by ideological preference. Probably more revealing to look at city vs rural (and consider suburbs/exurbs). And then just take that kind of breakdown to each state where you consider how concentrated its population is in its major metro areas. Wouldn't be perfect (e.g. TX is overall conservative despite multiple big cities) but I bet it'd give a better starting point for making sense and thinking about outliers.
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
12936 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 5:56 pm to
The poorest areas in the south vote democrat.

It's a bullshite liberal narrative that poor white people in the south are Republicans.
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140474 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 6:02 pm to
I do appreciate your attempt to have a discussion for the record. Just wish you didn't start with the feelings bullshite.
Posted by Strannix
District 11
Member since Dec 2012
48925 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 6:09 pm to
Wrong
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
90620 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 7:14 pm to
The northeast and west coast used to be staunchly republican while the south was democrat.

I think areas go through a cycle of economic idealogy. Poor undeveloped areas vote for blue collar leftist policy (such as unions) because it promises support. As development occurs, it becomes more conservative. Once it becomes developed and wealthy, it goes to leftist again...not for economic policy but for social policy as people tend to concentrate on things that don't matter when they're comfortable. In typical progressive form along with terrible economic policy this leads to a collapse and social unrest and eventually a swing back to the right, but a more authoritarian right wing as people seek law and order.
Posted by Jake88
Member since Apr 2005
68263 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 7:22 pm to
No. California and NH were republican until the late 1980s. The South was democrat. Virginia and Colorado both recently sent to have gone left. Va because of Federal employees and Colorado because of the leftist locusts from CA. What about the black voters in the South? It's based upon almost innumerable variables.

I appreciate your thoughts, but this is demonstrably wrong...
quote:

Liberals being more caring and wanting lower education cost and welfare safety nets are not inherently bad.
That is there excuse to grow government and power. They love "caring" with other peoples' money. Not so much their own.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 7:23 pm to
quote:

trying to understand why northeastern states and Cali are solid blue and generally considered economically prosperous.


1. they are considered economically prosperous because they are.

gross product of CA is bigger than nearly all countries on earth.
lots of wealthy people. software. hardware. entertainment. food.

2. why they be blue?
The people who first got to the gold rush came from New England.
They arrived on ships.
language patterns and values of new england came to SF.

3. why are new englanders blue? not always been the case.
lots of senators and gov GOP.
NY Rockefeller
Mass Romney
some of the most conservative, from New York and New England.

You need to look at each issue.

anti slavery, sure.
anti war. some of that too.

4. all hail St Ronnie of Reagan. GOP gov CA and Potus.

5. Nasty Nixon. GOP. gov CA and POTUS
This post was edited on 7/12/18 at 7:29 pm
Posted by llfshoals
Member since Nov 2010
15432 posts
Posted on 7/12/18 at 7:27 pm to
if you noticed, much of the manufacturing is moving to the red states.

Detroit had an abundance of housing, although today much of it has simply been bulldozed down because people fled the city.

The weight of the useless grew too great for the few to carry.

The South is not so poor you see, as for one thing it costs less to live here. I would argue the people of the south are far more caring than liberals can understand.

Why? Because if you look at what people contribute voluntarily, to causes and charities as individuals the percentages are far higher for conservatives.

Liberals are very willing to throw other people’s money at problems. But their time? Their money?

Not so much.
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