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Started By
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re: No Murder Charge for Robber Who Allegedly Shot Clerk Dead
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:16 am to Pettifogger
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:16 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I'm not a criminal attorney, but surely we could stretch felony murder to cover this. He initiated an armed robbery and killed someone in the course of it.
That. Plus in some states such as mine, an initial aggressor cannot claim self-defense.
1
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:18 am to lsufball19
quote:Legalities aside, in the eyes of a lay person, the thief was still in the act of committing the initial crime.
simply dismissing a murder charge of someone who just held up a convenience store won't and shouldn't sit right with anyone. There's way too many shades of grey and arguments to be made for that to have been their decision.
Therein lies the quandary of a prosecutor. Law or popularity?
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:21 am to EasterEgg
quote:And in all those states, the “initial aggressor” loses that status when he withdraws from the confrontation … as by “fleeing.”
in some states such as mine, an initial aggressor cannot claim self-defense.
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:22 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Therein lies the quandary of a prosecutor. Law or popularity?
You've said it yourself, a Prosecutor has the discretion and may sometimes be compelled to ignore an unjust Law.
In this case, the Prosecutor is CHOOSING to prosecute someone maliciously and hiding behind that Law.
Lawyers are shite.
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:22 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Solid analysis, but it does not answer the question of whether (under California law) he was still engaged in the original felony at the time of the shooting.
That article doesn't provide enough details about the shooting even if I did know how California law defines when a criminal act is determined to be complete. Honestly, it may be a question of precedent as there may not be a statute that defines when a robbery is deemed as completed.
We obviously don't know this, but I'm sure the state does, but if the dude was running away with his gun pointing behind him, to me that crime is not over. The interpretation get from reading that one article is two guys go into a convenience store, hold up the clerk, rob the clerk, and run out of the store. Then, the clerk runs after them and starts shooting. To me, the escape to safety is inherently still part of the commission of the crime. However, there very well could be case law that addresses exactly that.
Whatever the case, having read the California code regarding robbery, their laws are a joke on that end. And if this is, in fact, a valid defense to murder, then that is also a problem with their criminal code.
This post was edited on 12/2/22 at 11:23 am
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:24 am to lsufball19
quote:
And if this is, in fact, a valid defense to murder, then that is also a problem with their criminal code.
Do Prosecutors have the discretion to ignore stupid/unjust Laws?
We sort of see them playing God everyday in this country.
Hiding behind a shitty law so you can be Political is pretty obvious.
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:26 am to oogabooga68
quote:
We sort of see them playing God everyday in this country.
This is a Soros DA. The facts don’t matter much to them.
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Maybe in Louisiana, but in Texas it is legal to use deadly force to stop someone from stealing your stuff.
Should be felony murder
But this is a great reminder to not shoot criminals running away from you
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:28 am to Flats
quote:
This is a Soros DA.
Understood, but I've been told on this very board that Prosecutors have what is know as "discretion" when it comes to prosecuting people.
Seem sort of odd to act like a martyr when people rightfully complain about that discretion being misused.
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:33 am to lsufball19
quote:To me, every moment that someone has possession of someone else's property without permission to have that property, that person is in the throes of a robbery.
That article doesn't provide enough details about the shooting even if I did know how California law defines when a criminal act is determined to be complete. Honestly, it may be a question of precedent as there may not be a statute that defines when a robbery is deemed as completed.
If the thief were to drop possession on the spot and then flee, then any further violence from either party is a separate offense, regardless who initiates it.
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:47 am to djmed
I thought you are responsible for any death while you are committing a felony?
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:52 am to AggieHank86
quote:
but as I read the statement from the DA, California law does seem to indicate that the crime would be deemed to have been complete by the time of the shooting.
Look up People v Wilkins. Looks like CA Supreme Court said felony murder liability includes fleeing from the scene
This post was edited on 12/2/22 at 11:53 am
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:54 am to AggieHank86
quote:
And in all those states, the “initial aggressor” loses that status when he withdraws from the confrontation … as by “fleeing.”
Thus the problem, that's a ridiculous way to view it. If I punch someone in the face for no reason then attempt to run off, that attempt at flight should in no way negate the fact that had just I punched someone in the face.
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:55 am to Bard
quote:
that's a ridiculous way to view it
Yep, store clerk was just keeping this PoS from killing the next guy.
I understand the legal aspect, but I'm really sorry the clerk missed.
Posted on 12/2/22 at 11:57 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:The antithesis of the "stand your ground" law!
because the suspect was shot at while fleeing, his shooting back was self-defense.
Posted on 12/2/22 at 12:00 pm to nes2010
Here's that prize winner
Posted on 12/2/22 at 12:01 pm to Oates Mustache
This post has been marked unreadable!
Posted on 12/2/22 at 12:01 pm to jchamil
quote:Good find. That may work.
People v Wilkins
Posted on 12/2/22 at 12:02 pm to Codythetiger
Not cool, not cool....
Posted on 12/2/22 at 12:03 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
F the original felony is defined as being complete, he would not have still been engaged in a felony when he fired the shots
I would think fleeing is part of the act.
In virtually every state felony murder has applied to getaway drivers
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