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No Murder Charge for Robber Who Allegedly Shot Clerk Dead

Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:17 am
Posted by djmed
Member since Aug 2020
2592 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:17 am
California: No Murder Charge for Robber Who Allegedly Shot Clerk Dead

Twenty-year-old Ronald Jackson Jr. allegedly shot a Chevron station clerk to death in Antioch, California, Saturday but is facing no murder charges over the incident, the district attorney noting that because the suspect was shot at while fleeing, his shooting back was self-defense.

LINK
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
259940 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:18 am to
quote:

because the suspect was shot at while fleeing, his shooting back was self-defense.
Posted by Pettifogger
Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
Member since Feb 2012
79120 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:19 am to
I'm not a criminal attorney, but surely we could stretch felony murder to cover this. He initiated an armed robbery and killed someone in the course of it.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:20 am to
I think BBonds is a CA attorney. Maybe he can shed some light on the relevant statutes.

Depending upon local law, I can see an argument that his fleeing the scene might mean that the crime of theft was complete and that the shots fired at him as he was fleeing become a separate attempted assault by the clerk. If so, self-defense WOULD perhaps come into play.

Barry?
This post was edited on 12/2/22 at 10:24 am
Posted by ProjectP2294
South St. Louis city
Member since May 2007
70097 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:20 am to
quote:

district attorney noting that because the suspect was shot at while fleeing, his shooting back was self-defense.


Seems like this is something the jury should decide, not the prosecutor.
Posted by DaleGribble
Bend, OR
Member since Sep 2014
6821 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:22 am to
Let's all ignore the fact that the reason that he was being shot at is because he pulled a gun on them to rob them. What matters is that someone needs to feel safe while being a fricking thief.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
64488 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:25 am to
quote:

BBonds

he doesn't do criminal law. Pretty sure he does some form of corporate litigation
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:25 am to
Should be felony murder

But this is a great reminder to not shoot criminals running away from you
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
112417 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Seems like this is something the jury should decide, not the prosecutor.


Juries are being manipulated more these days to help the criminal.
If the family members of a murder victim start weeping over the details of their child's gruesome death they can be banned from the court since their pain can persuade the jury.
In some jurisdictions they have eliminated the crime of 'rape' because it's a bad word. You are now charged with 'sexual assault' before you murdered the woman. It's a less emotional word for the jury.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
64488 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:28 am to
quote:

Let's all ignore the fact that the reason that he was being shot at is because he pulled a gun on them to rob them. What matters is that someone needs to feel safe while being a fricking thief.


I think the problem here is the California laws on self-defense and the CA castle doctrine don't really apply to this unique set of facts. The guy was no longer in the store and was running away outside the store, so there was no longer a threat. I would have let a jury regardless. The statement the DA made is basically an argument dude's defense attorney would be making. It's not a bad argument, but it's also not an iron clad argument that would necessitate dismissing murder charges as a matter of law. I still think there is an argument for felony murder, where self-defense for the robber wouldn't be an applicable affirmative defense.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:29 am to
quote:

Should be felony murder
Is it?

IF the original felony is defined as being complete, he would not have still been engaged in a felony when he fired the shots.

Again, does anyone know California law on the “conclusion” of the original felony?
Posted by timdonaghyswhistle
Member since Jul 2018
16277 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:30 am to
Legalities aside...

If you don't want a life full of bullshite, ending in a bullshite death, don't live in CA.
Posted by Oates Mustache
Member since Oct 2011
22051 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:32 am to
quote:

IF the original felony is defined as being complete, he would not have still been engaged in a felony when he fired the shots.


Are you seriously arguing this?

If he has a weapon, he still poses a grave threat to the people he was robbing. He could just as easily turned back around and ended them all. This is fully justifiable. You're reaching or trolling.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:32 am to
quote:

It's not a bad argument, but it's also not an iron clad argument that would necessitate dismissing murder charges as a matter of law.
”As a matter of law,” agreed. But prosecutors are daily asked to make the decision as to whether the likelihood of a conviction justifies the expenditure of resources in a prosecution.

if the murder charge looks like a probable loser, should a DA expend those resources?
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:33 am to
quote:

Are you seriously arguing this?
I am not “arguing“ that this is the law, no.

I am saying that that is one possible scenario, and asking whether it is in fact the law in California. given what I know about California law in general, it is not an unreasonable interpretation of what their law may be.

You want to argue what the law SHOULD be. I am seeking to determine what it actually IS.
This post was edited on 12/2/22 at 10:41 am
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:38 am to
quote:

Are you seriously arguing this?


You must have missed the 20 plus pages of this idiot calling Kyle Rittenhouse a murderer....
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:39 am to
quote:

that because the suspect was shot at while fleeing, his shooting back was self-defense.


Sorry, but the majority of Lawyers and Judges in this country are fking pond-scum, period.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
64488 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:40 am to
quote:

But prosecutors are daily asked to make the decision as to whether the likelihood of a conviction justifies the expenditure of resources in a prosecution.

I'm aware, but that's what the DA said when announcing why their office wasn't prosecuting the murder.

"In the eyes of the law, Mr. Williams’ actions ceased to be self-defense when Mr. Williams pursued Mr. Jackson and the other suspect with a firearm — and continued to pursue Mr. Jackson after he shot him.”

quote:

if the murder charge looks like a probable loser, should a DA expend those resources?

In this situation, yes. A victim of an armed robbery is dead, and the person who committed the armed robbery is who killed the victim. The guy I would assume will still face charges for armed robbery. The State will still need to expend resources to prosecute that case. Sometimes DAs have to prosecute cases knowing a conviction isn't a guarantee. That's why we have jury trials. A better question is does the state think justice was served here under the law or were they more worried about their conviction rate?

There's far too many DAs who are too scared to try a case and lose. That's a part of the job. If they're scared to lose, then find another line of work.
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:40 am to
quote:

Saturday but is facing no murder charges over the incident, the district attorney noting that because the suspect was shot at while fleeing, his shooting back was self-defense.


Someone again remind us decent folk why we should have some sort of moral opposition to vigilantism?

Posted by The Maj
Member since Sep 2016
27061 posts
Posted on 12/2/22 at 10:41 am to
quote:

Are you seriously arguing this?



He argues a whole lot more disturbing things as well... Hanky has a depraved mind...
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