re: New technology and the shroud of Tourin. Happy Easter!!!

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Just can’t help yourself.

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The warning was well-intended. Many put their trust in signs rather than in the thing signified.

I have seen people get angry when the authenticity of the shroud is questioned because it is a major evidence of the resurrection to them that holds an important place in their faith.

My warning is to not place your confidence in relics, but in Christ alone.

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Where and whom?

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Many people in person and online over many years. I don’t remember their names.

There was one young man who asked about the shroud in Sunday school a few months ago who needed that warning because he thought it was a critical evidence of the resurrection.

FooManChoo should have watched the video.... Dr. Johnson reminds us of how the shroud should and should not be treated (if it's real) as he quoted scripture about 'graven image'.

He mentions

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What I have seen and done personally is venerate those items.

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and he mentions this. People have knelt before it, not to pray to the shrould but to whom it represents.
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I saw this video before sunrise service this morning. It is VERY good, something I'd recommend all to see, but I recognize it is long. Because of that, AI exists -

Here is a summary of the video, including what is displayed, discussed, and the primary talking points:

Overview
The video features a discussion between host Michael Knowles and guest Dr. Jeremiah Johnston (with a guest appearance by Shroud scholar Doug Powell) regarding the authenticity and profound implications of the Shroud of Turin. They argue that the Shroud is the authentic burial cloth of Jesus Christ, providing scientific and historical evidence to counter claims that it is a medieval forgery.

What is Displayed
Throughout the episode, the guests bring out several physical artifacts and replicas to visually support their historical and scientific claims:

Full-Scale Replica of the Shroud of Turin: A life-sized reproduction of the famous burial cloth bearing the image of a crucified man [01:22].

Replica of the Sudarium of Oviedo: A replica of the headcloth believed to have been wrapped around Jesus’ head after his death [21:19].

Tyrian Silver Temple Tax Coin: An authentic 14-gram silver coin from the era of Pontius Pilate, representing the exact currency used to pay Judas and the temple tax [36:36].

Second-Century Bronze Coin: A coin minted by Emperor Hadrian, who renamed Jerusalem "Aelia Capitolina" and inadvertently preserved the site of Christ's tomb by building a pagan temple over it [39:23].

Crucifixion Nail Replica: A 9-inch nail demonstrating how Roman crucifixions were actually carried out [47:28].

Roman Flagrum (Scourge): A reproduction of the whip used by Romans, featuring lead barbells that leave distinct, tripartite impressions [49:25].

Helmet of Thorns: A crown made of long, sharp Bethlehem thorns, shaped as a full helmet rather than the traditional artistic depiction of a laurel wreath [58:46].

What is Discussed
The conversation centers on overcoming modern skepticism and providing tangible, scientific, and historical evidence for the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. Dr. Johnston outlines his own journey from being a skeptic of the Shroud to a firm believer, relying on studies from over 100 academic disciplines. They discuss alternative dating methods to debunk the 1988 radiocarbon dating, the exact correspondence of blood stains across multiple relics, and the theological realities of God's love and the extreme suffering Christ endured.

Key Talking Points

Creation of the Image: Scientists cannot replicate the superficial image on the Shroud, which sits only on the top few microns of the linen fibers [11:06]. Dr. Johnston posits that the image was created by a supernatural burst of energy (34,000 trillion watts) at the exact moment of the resurrection, effectively acting like a photographic negative [09:34].

Debunking the 1988 Carbon-14 Dating: Skeptics often cite a 1988 radiocarbon test that dated the Shroud to the Middle Ages. Dr. Johnston argues this test was flawed because the sample was taken from a contaminated, interwoven cotton corner used to patch the Shroud after a fire [16:10].

Alternative Dating Methods: Newer dating techniques, such as Wide-Angle X-ray Scattering and the absence of vanillin in the flax, align the Shroud with first-century Jewish burial linens, specifically matching the degradation levels of the Shroud of Masada from 70 AD [18:22].

The Sudarium Connection: Doug Powell demonstrates that the blood stains on the Sudarium of Oviedo perfectly match the face on the Shroud in size, shape, and blood type (the rare AB type) [25:08]. Because the Sudarium has a documented history extending back to the 6th century—long before the supposed medieval creation of the Shroud—it makes the forgery argument historically impossible [30:31].

Anatomical and Historical Accuracy: The Shroud gets Roman crucifixion right in ways a medieval forger wouldn't know. The nail wounds are in the wrists (not the palms) to support the body's weight [47:28]. The victim suffered around 372 wounds from a Roman flagrum, post-mortem blood and pulmonary edema fluid flowed from a lance wound in the side, and the head features puncture wounds from a thick "helmet" of thorns [49:25].

Limestone Signatures: The dirt found on the nose, knees, and feet of the man on the Shroud contains a specific limestone signature unique to Jerusalem, aligning with the narrative of Jesus falling while carrying the cross [43:07].

Theological Implications: Ultimately, the hosts conclude that the Shroud proves that Christianity is rooted in actual, testable history [06:30]. Looking at the Shroud forces an individual to grapple with the brutal reality of the crucifixion, serving as a radical physical demonstration of God's love and validating the teachings of the Christian faith.

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FooManChoo should have watched the video....

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I watched the whole video several months ago. It has been out for a year.

My comments were not about the video itself, but about potential fallout from the video. Namely, that it is tempting to put your trust in the evidences of the resurrection rather than the one who was raised from the dead.

Humans like physical, tangible things in their religion and worship. We are commanded to worship in spirit and truth, not with relics. The signs we were given are water in baptism and bread and wine in the Eucharist (Lord’s Supper). We need to continually focus on Christ and trust in Him by faith, not make our sight what we rely upon.

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My comments were not about the video itself, but about potential fallout from the video. Namely, that it is tempting to put your trust in the evidences of the resurrection rather than the one who was raised from the dead.

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Excellent & fair enough - just as my statement was not a rebuke of your original reminder.

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You would do well to realize the difference.

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Foo is convinced that Roman Catholics tend to Worship the Shroud itself and Foo is the self-appointed Righteous Covenanter whose job on Earth is to remind Catholics how stupid and erroneous we are.

Foo is straight out of 1600 AD Scotland.

He's a good guy, though.

Thanks for the reminder, Foo! I'll try not to worship a piece of cloth. Don't forget to remind me not to worship the Blessed Virgin Mary.

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We are to make Christ the assurance of our faith, not relics. We are to venerate Christ, not a cloth.

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Interesting (but mostly wrong) assertion. I’ll continue along the path of faith I’ve chosen which is to as closely as possible mirror the path of those taught by those who were taught by Jesus. The early church fathers.


I’ll trust their written words over yours, but thanks anyway.

Funny how some people's entire belief system revolves around something their Savior never penned.
There's a lot more in the Catholic faith, you should take the log out of your eyes, you may see it.

Back in the 1950s Reader's Digest was very popular with housewives. They had a cover story proclaiming: 'New Discovery About The Shroud of Tourin!' EVERY YEAR.

And who do you think you rely on in your pew as you kneel?

Your pedofile Priest that you listen to every Sunday? The log through your head is bigger than anything I’ve ever experienced.