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Message

re: MSNBC: Democrats want Pardons for Jack Smith and his team

Posted on 12/2/24 at 7:53 am to
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
31462 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 7:53 am to
bullshite.

If you had the power, you would do this for your kid too
Posted by idlewatcher
Planet Arium
Member since Jan 2012
83721 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 7:54 am to
Sooooo they are admitting to being the party of corruption and pedophilia?
Posted by vl100butch
Ridgeland, MS
Member since Sep 2005
35602 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 7:56 am to
The question in my mind, based on a judicial call...was Jack Smith properly appointed. in that he wasn't confirmed by the Senate?

Additionally, the government auditor in me has the Anti-Deficiency Act alarm going off.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
58513 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 7:57 am to
quote:

What do I care that Biden pardons his kid?


I care that his kid was committing crimes enough to require a pardon.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
441697 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 7:57 am to
quote:

I think he just enjoys provoking emotional reactions from people who "feel" things they can't substantiate.


This is common with the post-2016 shift on this board.

It used to be a place where facts and opinion mattered, but now it's, as you described, largely feelings-based (and facts are oft-rejected as disinformation).

quote:

Just define what lawfare is and argue over that. Instead people just like to assume what lawfare is and try arguing over it.


When people do try to define it, I typically use an example that tests their definition and then they rage-quit. That's why definitions matter.

The biggest conceptual issue is they want to define it in a way to attack the legitimacy of the underlying claims, which poses a gordian knot. What they REALLY want is a "I know it when I see it" definition so it can be lawfare when they're the victim but legitimate when their perceived opponent is the victim, but that requires legitimacy as a one-way street.

So, like with facts, to create the asymmetry in legitimacy, they have to attack the specific institutions to delegitimize them on an ad hoc basis.

The problem is, that still isn't defining the concept. And then we start the process over again.
Posted by TigerAllNightLong
Member since Jul 2023
591 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 7:58 am to
Blanket pardon for all registered Republicans as of Jan 20, 2025 for any and all crimes since birth. Then charge every registered Democrat with obstruction.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
441697 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 7:58 am to
quote:

SFP is merely caught in an existential crisis.

Reliance on the truth/reality and not fantasy/LARPing has taken its toll on me.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
31462 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:01 am to
Not filing or paying his taxes? What could you hope to find out? " sir, I was so frickex up at the time, that I did not care and anyway I had no money because I spent it all on crack and other assorted drugs."
Posted by OceanMan
Member since Mar 2010
21115 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:01 am to
quote:

This is the equivalent of MAGA calling non-pedos, pedos, for example.


Think more, post less
Posted by SidewalkDawg
Chair
Member since Nov 2012
10089 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:04 am to
quote:

When people do try to define it, I typically use an example that tests their definition and then they rage-quit. That's why definitions matter.

The biggest conceptual issue is they want to define it in a way to attack the legitimacy of the underlying claims, which poses a gordian knot. What they REALLY want is a "I know it when I see it" definition so it can be lawfare when they're the victim but legitimate when their perceived opponent is the victim, but that requires legitimacy as a one-way street.

So, like with facts, to create the asymmetry in legitimacy, they have to attack the specific institutions to delegitimize them on an ad hoc basis.

The problem is, that still isn't defining the concept. And then we start the process over again.


How would you define Lawfare? Or do you even think it's a real thing?

I've always agreed with this definition: strategic use of legal systems and procedures to achieve political, military, or ideological objectives, rather than for the purpose of seeking justice or resolving a legal dispute. It involves the manipulation or weaponization of legal processes to burden, harass, or undermine an adversary, often with the goal of gaining a political advantage or discrediting the opposition, without regard for the merits of the legal case.

The problem with proving Lawfare is that the bar is high.
Posted by LRB1967
Tennessee
Member since Dec 2020
20130 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:10 am to
quote:

you would do this for your kid too


Not if my kid was a lowlife POS like Hunter
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
31462 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:13 am to
Nice theory, now waste your time trying to prove it.

You got Hunter Biden, he got convicted on tax charges. It was never the intent of the IRS to prove that the money was ill gotten.....IRS does not care about that. He either did not report it by failing to file or simply did not pay. Oh, you wanna get him for a bullshite gun charge?

You won....in the end you get nothing out of him. You never were. It's not about what you think; it is what you can prove depending on the charge. You could charge him with influence peddling......and good luck with that.

Comer tried to prove something in committee a while back. It merely showed that the Biden brothers gave each other short term loans....not against the law on its face.

Please do better
This post was edited on 12/2/24 at 8:15 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
441697 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:14 am to
I'm not sniping but the biggest issue is still the legitimacy one.

How do you attack legitimate prosecution of legitimate crimes and turn that into some sort of political action? All the things you posted could happen, but involve actual, legitimate accusations of actual, legitimate crimes. How is the legitimacy itself attacked?

The problem is that you basically end up attempting a sort of equal protection argument, and then you're basically in the same territory as BLM types. This gets REAL amplified when muh whataboutism is applied (and is why its applied, to muddy the waters and reinforce the in/out group dynamic). This is exactly what BLM and race hustlers do to explain away legitimate crimes of their in-group ("oh white people commit the same crimes but aren't prosecuted because of institutional racism")
This post was edited on 12/2/24 at 8:15 am
Posted by SidewalkDawg
Chair
Member since Nov 2012
10089 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:23 am to
quote:


I'm not sniping but the biggest issue is still the legitimacy one.


I get the legitimacy point, but the problem is that even legitimate charges can be used for political purposes. It’s not just about whether a crime was committed, it's about how the legal system can be weaponized to attack someone. I.E. bringing charges against Trump right before the 2024 election and timing the cases.

quote:

The problem is that you basically end up attempting a sort of equal protection argument, and then you're basically in the same territory as BLM types. This gets REAL amplified when muh whataboutism is applied (and is why its applied, to muddy the waters and reinforce the in/out group dynamic). This is exactly what BLM and race hustlers do to explain away legitimate crimes of their in-group ("oh white people commit the same crimes but aren't prosecuted because of institutional racism")


The difference is that this isn't about making excuses for crime, it's about questioning whether the legal system is being used to target someone for political reasons. It's not whataboutism to point out how timing or selective prosecution can influence outcomes.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
31462 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:23 am to
The crazy thing is, that the Trumpkins got their conviction. It's just that it's not all they had hoped for. If they want to get Hunter Biden on racketeering, the have Pam Bondi or whomever waste the time trying to build a case and present it in front of a grand jury..

Meanwhile, this goes on Joe Biden is declared mentally unfit.....and there goes the case and Obama still gets off.
Posted by Bourre
Da Parish
Member since Nov 2012
21270 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:24 am to
quote:

If you had the power, you would do this for your kid too


This will be every leftist’s argument over the next few days. “We knew Joe was lying all along, who wouldn’t pardon their kid’. It’s only wrong and immoral when right leaning people do it, not when your betters from the democrat party do it
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
31462 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:25 am to
You bitching over a tax charge?
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
74933 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:25 am to
quote:

it's about questioning whether the legal system is being used to target someone for political reasons.
SFP doubts lawfare exists.
Posted by KCRoyalBlue
Member since Nov 2020
1363 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:27 am to
All we need is a ham sandwich not covered in the pardon.
Posted by SidewalkDawg
Chair
Member since Nov 2012
10089 posts
Posted on 12/2/24 at 8:30 am to
quote:

SFP doubts lawfare exists.


I don’t think he necessarily doubts lawfare exists. I just don't think anyone has given him a solid enough definition that his lawyer brain can’t pick apart.
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