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Started By
Message
re: M1 Abrams Tanks Are Coming To Ukraine: Too Hard To Use?
Posted on 1/26/23 at 2:21 pm to POTUS2024
Posted on 1/26/23 at 2:21 pm to POTUS2024
quote:
To just take stuff sitting in the motorpool and get it ready to ship, that's super easy by comparison.
I imagine so, but in this case, these M1s aren't coming from our "inventory", as John Kirby put it yesterday in his briefing. The Pentagon isn't willing to part with any of our operational M1s.
0
Posted on 1/26/23 at 2:50 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:
We were told these will be in country in “days”.
How is that even possible?
Posted on 1/26/23 at 2:59 pm to Sam Quint
quote:
i dont know, i've met some tankers who were pretty dumb
I am a retired Abrams tanker and no doubt there were a few dumbasses, hence the acronym DAT (Dumb arse Tanker). You can throw any knucklehead in the loader's statin or driver's hole.
But gunners and tank commanders can't be "dumb", you're in a 72 ton beast maneuvering at up to 40 mph shooting depleted uranium sabot rounds out to 3km+.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 3:00 pm to Auburn1968
quote:But are they Kornet fodder?
Challengers, Leopards and Abrams are all T72 and other Russian tank killing beasts.
It is a different age of warfare.
The Moskva was a damn fine ship.
Abrams are damn fine tanks.
This post was edited on 1/26/23 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 1/26/23 at 3:06 pm to RockinDood
and eats all the food in the country. They will find a T-55 between her teeth .
Posted on 1/26/23 at 3:10 pm to CleverUserName
Yeah C-5's can carry 2 Abrams and C-17's can carry 1 Abrams.
We have over 200 C-17s and another 50 or so C-5's.
We have over 200 C-17s and another 50 or so C-5's.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 3:11 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
But are they Kornet fodder?
It is a different age of warfare.
https://www.military-today.com/missiles/kornet.htm
Here's some data on that.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 3:30 pm to Auburn1968
quote:Right.
Here's some data on that.
I guess Ukrainians will serve as "the monkey in the capsule" so to speak, to see how quickly a Russian infantry squad with a light weapon can wipe out a couple of Abrams and crews?
Posted on 1/26/23 at 3:46 pm to El Segundo Guy
quote:
I am a retired Abrams tanker
My dad was involved in various aspects of engineering the Abrams (robotics).
During Desert Storm the press was talking about US history of fielding inferior tanks. The Abrams was relatively untried. There were questions about degraded performance in sand and heat against "tougher" and tested T72M's. Dad chuckled and said "just wait."
IRRC, in the Iraqi's best showing, their losses were something like 180-1.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 4:15 pm to jmarto1
quote:
I put this in another thread but it will take awhile to get there. We have to take out our top secret tech first.
this. we have an "export" version of M1s. see Egypt and Iraq for these types that were sold
Posted on 1/26/23 at 4:18 pm to Auburn1968
M1 Abrams is a real beast of a tank. It is huge, fast, fantastic guns & armor, can roll over big obstacles and can shoot the machine gun without having a gunner stick his head out of a hatch (problem with the smaller Leopard). The biggest downside to M1 Abrams downside is fuel consumption. It is flexible on fuel (the turbine will run on almost anything) but it burns twice as much fuel as the Leopard tanks.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 4:21 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
IRRC, in the Iraqi's best showing, their losses were something like 180-1.
I haven't done the math but the tiger and panther were both much better than the t34 or m1. Germany lost around 40k, USA over 12k when you include UK Sherman's and Russia lost over 90k t34s.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 4:30 pm to rooster108bm
quote:
I haven't done the math but the tiger and panther were both much better than the t34 or m1. Germany lost around 40k,
Germany didn't even build 10k Panthers and Tigers, let alone lose 40 thousand of them.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 4:36 pm to rooster108bm
Between 1943 and 1945 Germany built roughly 6,000 Panthers in the three combat models (D, A and G)
In total, roughly 7,000 vehicles in total were based on the Panther chassis.
The 1st model - Ausf. D, 842 were produced
2nd Model - Ausf. A, 2,200 were produced
3rd and final model - Ausf. G, 2,961 were produced
Bergepanther (recovery vehicle) - 339 were produced
JagdPanther (Tank Destroyer) - 392 were produced
Tigers - 1,347 were produced
In total, roughly 7,000 vehicles in total were based on the Panther chassis.
The 1st model - Ausf. D, 842 were produced
2nd Model - Ausf. A, 2,200 were produced
3rd and final model - Ausf. G, 2,961 were produced
Bergepanther (recovery vehicle) - 339 were produced
JagdPanther (Tank Destroyer) - 392 were produced
Tigers - 1,347 were produced
This post was edited on 1/26/23 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 1/26/23 at 4:38 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Germany didn't even build 10k Panthers and Tigers, let alone lose 40 thousand of them.
Germany produced close to 50K tanks throughout WWII. Maybe that is what he meant.
This post was edited on 1/26/23 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 1/26/23 at 4:40 pm to CleverUserName
That's the transport part, but what of the retro-fitting? Seems that'll take a few weeks, no?
*Unless there's a group already fitted, ready to go.
*Unless there's a group already fitted, ready to go.
This post was edited on 1/26/23 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 1/26/23 at 4:45 pm to BuckyCheese
40k tanks total. I didn't say they lost 40k panzers and tigers.
Regardless you have made my point that numbers will overcome a superior tank.
Regardless you have made my point that numbers will overcome a superior tank.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 4:46 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
Germany produced close to 50K tanks
Thank you.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 4:49 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:
We were told these will be in country in “days”.
How is that even possible?
I heard it was going to be months before the Abrams is in the field in Ukraine. At least that is what the spokesman, John Kirby, said.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 5:18 pm to NCIS_76
Takes a lot of groceries to keep that running.
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