re: Life begins at conception.

quote:

---

You listed 3 words in your own arguement, and there are probably More translations

---

I listed three possible words to show you a theme. The word used in the text indicates movement rather than a ceasing or termination. "Miscarry" is a word that indicates a death, though the context of the passage shows a distinction between a death and a non-death, or lesser harm.

My intent in providing multiple words was not to imply that it can mean anything (including miscarriage), but that there is a particular meaning implied with the word, and that translators may take interpretive liberties with the text based on what they think the point is rather than what the text says. It's why many translations of that word use something like, "so that her fruit depart from her" (KJV); "so that her fruit depart" (ASV); "so that her children come out" (ESV); "and her children have come out" (YLT) for the more literal sense of the word, or translate it as premature birth (MEV, NASB, NIV, NKJV, OJB, etc.), which is an interpretive decision.

quote:

---

And then on top of that you’re making an interpretation of what that means . Because none of those mean premature birth.

---

You're right that I'm interpreting the word, as we all must do. However, I'm making an interpretation based on sound hermeneutics that takes into account not just the meaning of the word, itself, but the context that the word was used in (both immediate context of the verse and passage, but also the context of the rest of Scripture). Given such context, "premature birth" appears to be the proper interpretation or understanding compared to "miscarriage". Also the lack of injury is taken into account in that verse.

quote:

---

But children were valued but that doesn’t mean pregnancies are children. And in this case a miscarriage would involve you paying the parents.

---

I think you're having to do some crazy interpretative gymnastics to reach this conclusion. As I said, children were highly valued, and women rejoiced when they conceived and became pregnant because of the expectation that the child would be born and the blessing of children that they would enjoy. It's precisely why I mentioned Samson and Jeremiah, who received their marching orders, so to speak, before they were even born.

quote:

---

huh? I think you have misconstrued something. I support only early-term abortion and vehemently oppose late-term abortion precisely BECAUSE a late-term fetus has approached closely-enough to sapience that we should afford some protections.

---

This is just a strange subjective standard that makes no sense to me.

quote:

---

If not sapience/intelligence, then please explain how and why YOU differentiate "human life" from all other life on this rock (and elsewhere in the universe).

---

I believe all Humans are set apart and made in the image of God. If we do not believe in a higher moral law, given by a higher authority than us, then anyone’s version of morality is no better or worse than another’s.

If we are just meat puppets here by accident, and all our emotions and feelings either good or bad are just random neurons firing, then morality means nothing. If you do not believe in a higher moral authority giving us rules to live by, there is no difference between mother Teresa and Stalin. Who is to say one is better or worse? By whose standards can you judge?

quote:

---

quote:

---

And during that same time period, abortion (usually via abortifacient) has been a crime in some times and places and has been perfectly-legal (and even "common") in other times and places.

---

So has slavery.

---

And this is relevant to Tommy's point ... how?

If in doubt, watch “House MD”; Season 3, Episode 17, entitled “Fetal Position”. Don’t ask questions. Just watch it…

quote:

---

So, your defense is not of abortion, but the legalization of murder-for-all?

---

He’s upset that they killed the baby goat that he uses to pleasure himself

quote:

---

No one is. The issue is abortion...human abortion. The only life under consideration then is human life.

To suggest anything other than this is an attempt at obfuscation.

---

Then your argument is human life is more sacred than other forms of life, which turns it into a religious or at the very least philosophical argument. From a scientific and biological sense there is no more value to a human life than that of a whale or whatever else. Your religion or philosophy isn't supposed to do determine what is and what should be in terms of what a government of the people decides to do.

quote:

---

But after that, there is no scientific way to say exactly when life beings, at conception, at the first heartbeat, when the fetus is viable outside the womb, or only at full development and birth.

---

I mean, we do when a fetus is generally viable outside the womb, when lung development reaches the end of its 3rd phase/beginning of its 4th phase.

Minimum Aggravated Battery* (not assault).
Attempted murder.

By law First degree feticide because he did so without the woman’s consent. I imagine His defense would bring up the abortion plan, and he may not be convicted on it. The mother may not press charges on it.
Idk if the DA would pursue it.

quote:

---

Who cares?

---

Spoken like a true a-hole!

By the way, many do!

I mean At some point there is no scientific difference between a born and unborn baby developmentally.

I think That’s significant.

My issue with viability is that it isn’t a developmental stage it has more to do with our ability to keep premature babies alive.

Viable today is a lot earlier than it was 50 years ago.