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Message
re: Life begins at conception.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 10:49 am to jm_1776
Posted on 5/4/22 at 10:49 am to jm_1776
quote:You hold a position, and I am asking for the basis underlying that position.
So you're basically asking why we should "protect" human life more than anything else? What a dumbass.
You call me a "dumbass." I suspect that you simply cannot articulate a basis for your position.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 10:51 am to Azkiger
quote:
Aren't you suppose to prove your own assertions?
Christians...
Posted on 5/4/22 at 10:52 am to momentoftruth87
quote:Sperm are not "human life", as God counts it. They are part of man, not man, himself. Otherwise each sperm cell and each egg cell would be their own people that form into one person at conception.
The burden of carrying millions of active swimmers disagrees. There is dead sperm and active sperm. Again, life starts with men.
Value, in the Bible, is always given to a person after conception. Whether it be a law against violence that causes miscarriage's, or people being consecrated while in the womb (e.g., Samson and Jeremiah).
BTW, I'm mentioning religious concepts because I can't imagine you aren't either a Christian (Catholic?) or a troll, because otherwise no one argues about sperm being alive.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 10:56 am to AggieHank86
quote:
quote:
So you're basically asking why we should "protect" human life more than anything else? What a dumbass.
You hold a position, and I am asking for the basis underlying that position.
You call me a "dumbass." I suspect that you simply cannot articulate a basis for your position.
The higher value of human life versus other forms of life is already codified in our legal code. While there are legal punishments for harming or ending some other life forms, both animal and plant, the charges and consequences are not equivalent to that of harming/ending a human life.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 10:56 am to AggieHank86
quote:Which particular life?
take this particular life
Posted on 5/4/22 at 10:59 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Agreed. Relevance? Lots of things are "alive." We kill them all the time
If it was legal to kill all humans for no reason then we wouldn’t need this court ruling. Liberals would be extinct.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:00 am to lsupride87
quote:Those examples are still morally wrong, as I see it, and inconsistent with the "pro-life" position (especially for those that believe life begins at conception).
Married couple excited as hell to be pregnant. They find out at 18 weeks the baby has no chance at surviving post birth due to multiple organ issues
-you make the mother carry it to term and deal with that
Young teenager raped.
-You make the girl carry the baby
Etc etc
Abortion is so much more nuanced than both sides try to make it. There are people against “murdering babies for fun”, who struggle with certain aspects of making abortion illegal across the board
The argument you seem to be making is an emotional one, not a logical or a moral one.
Bottom line: if the conceived child is a human and it is alive, and by being both has intrinsic value that should be protected, then the circumstances of the mother (other than her very life being at stake) do not warrant the killing of that child in the womb any more than they would warrant killing the child outside of the womb.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:02 am to AggieHank86
quote:All human life should be allowed to live. That's fairly simple.
I suspect that you simply cannot articulate a basis for your position.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:02 am to Lightning
quote:Yes, and we are attempting to determine WHY "human life" is treated differently. The answer to that question may well be the key to determining whether abortion is (or is not) acceptable.
The higher value of human life versus other forms of life is already codified in our legal code
But your answer continues to be essentially "just because it is."
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:05 am to WildManGoose
quote:Obviously, the embryo or fetus which may (or may not) be aborted.quote:Which particular life?
take this particular life
Are you thinking that my acknowledgement of the embryo as "life" is a "gotcha" of some sort? I have always acknowledged that an embryo (even a blastocyst) is "alive." That point is irrelevant to the question of why "human life" is different from all other life on this rock (or elsewhere).
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:07 am to beulahland
Life begins with a viable pregnancy that can be brought to term. An ectopic pregnancy will kill the mother.
Technically still alive at conception according to your definition, but will not ever sustain life
Technically still alive at conception according to your definition, but will not ever sustain life
This post was edited on 5/4/22 at 11:08 am
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:07 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Why is a "human life" entitled to protection, whereas other "life" is not?
Because we’re humans man. I think at a baseline we have to say you can’t kill Each other out of convenience or society doesn’t have much hope.
I personally believe life begins when we’ve developed to the point of sentience. Like some awareness of surrounding. Which isn’t that far into development. It’s a bit more fuzzy, I know. Which is why I am Not firmly in the pro-life or pro-choice camp.
I think Conception has a stronger argument than Birth.
This post was edited on 5/4/22 at 11:11 am
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:07 am to AggieHank86
quote:No we're not . That's some strawman that you just interjected into the thread.
Yes, and we are attempting to determine WHY "human life" is treated differently
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:08 am to Azkiger
quote:Considering the soul is separate from the body (the DNA), I would have to assume that the person has one soul. There is no biblical warrant for people having two unique souls residing in one body outside of demonic possession, which is a different thing altogether.
So what of tetragametic chimerism?
Two zygotes merge into one, and produce a child that has two sets of DNA. Is that person really two? Do they have two souls?
quote:Again, the body and the soul are different, though related by nature (God's natural order for humanity). Each person would have their own soul.
What about a zygote that splits into two? Do they have half a soul each?
quote:I'll stick with conception.
The furtherest you can reasonably go back is implantation onto the uterus.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:09 am to AggieHank86
quote:
why "human life" is different from all other life on this rock (or elsewhere).
we have a soul or at least have developed a higher level of consciousness than most other life forms on this Earth.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:13 am to FooManChoo
How do you feel about Exodus 21:22-23
22And should men quarrel and hit a pregnant woman, and she miscarries but there is no fatality, he shall surely be punished, when the woman's husband makes demands of him, and he shall give [restitution] according to the judges' [orders].
23But if there is a fatality, you shall give a life for a life,
Doesn’t this Imply that a Miscarriage is not fatality?
22And should men quarrel and hit a pregnant woman, and she miscarries but there is no fatality, he shall surely be punished, when the woman's husband makes demands of him, and he shall give [restitution] according to the judges' [orders].
23But if there is a fatality, you shall give a life for a life,
Doesn’t this Imply that a Miscarriage is not fatality?
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:14 am to AggieHank86
All life is important. Without some life we cannot maintain our life . Mankind is the dominant life form . Your answer is is to confuse an issue that is not relevant to abortion rights
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:17 am to gaetti15
quote:FINALLY, an honest answer. Please accept my upvote.
we have a soul or at least have developed a higher level of consciousness than most other life forms on this Earth.
Here's the rub. IF we DO have a "soul," and IF "ensoulment" occurs at conception, abortion opponents are correct. They win the debate. In that case, abortion is horribly wrong. The problem is that the vast majority of humanity does not accept that premise, myself included.
As to that higher level of consciousness, you and I are on the same page ... I just use the term "sapience," and take the position that "human life" is NOT "special" until sapience has developed.
This post was edited on 5/4/22 at 11:20 am
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:20 am to beulahland
Weird.
All of a sudden my body my choice is different.
All of a sudden my body my choice is different.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 11:22 am to AggieHank86
quote:
indeed. And therein lies the rub.
Why is a "human life" entitled to protection, whereas other "life" is not?
Because humans have the sentience to make the rules. If the trees become self aware to rally against their saplings being uprooted, I'll become an unabashed tree hugger
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