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re: Let's talk about school vouchers in Louisiana (A Policy Analysis)

Posted on 10/22/23 at 1:34 pm to
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61440 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 1:34 pm to
I'm totally fine with you and everyone else thinking I do or do not have sex with homeless people. It's just interesting that no one seems to care who the male posters sleep with, or slept with 15 years ago.

It's really fricking weird that you want to know what I look like. I truly haven't given a single thought to what you or anyone else that posts here looks like. Why would I care about that? You're already extremely unattractive based solely on your post history. I don't need photo confirmation.

Beyond that, you're interested in how I make money. How does that matter? You're awfully interested in me... Sounds like you have a crush.

Sorry, but I'm not interested.
Posted by Open Your Eyes
Member since Nov 2012
10586 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 1:45 pm to
quote:

I'm totally fine with you and everyone else thinking I do or do not have sex with homeless people.

As evidenced by you continuing to whine about it getting brought up.

quote:

It's just interesting that no one seems to care who the male posters sleep with, or slept with 15 years ago.

Not quite as interesting as the fact that this has already been addressed but you refuse to acknowledge it.

A recurring theme.

quote:

It's really fricking weird that you want to know what I look like.

I don’t.

quote:

You're already extremely unattractive based solely on your post history.

Pot meeting kettle and all that.

quote:

Beyond that, you're interested in how I make money.

I’m not.

quote:

You're awfully interested in me... Sounds like you have a crush.

I’ve seen you at the canes dog park, I’ve read your posts, I have no intention of getting involved with your or anyone else’s frick trophy, and I don’t want to be eski-bros with a homeless guy.

I assure you, I’m thoroughly uninterested.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139029 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 2:32 pm to
Cubs, before this goes further south, what is the prevailing thesis as to why academic performance would decline given choice, and a voucher?

Is the argument the voucher schools are inferior?

Are the schools a poor match for the voucher students?

There must be a premise.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61440 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 3:05 pm to
quote:

what is the prevailing thesis as to why academic performance would decline given choice, and a voucher?

Is the argument the voucher schools are inferior?


I'm not sure what the prevailing thesis is, but based on what I've seen it looks like the schools that accept voucher students are inferior. I'm working on a presentation about this so I've been sifting through the data.

There are opportunistic schools whose student bodies are made up of 100% voucher students. These schools tend to perform the worst and are involved in scandals or fraud at higher rates than traditional public schools.

Most of the schools that accept vouchers are rated D or F to begin with. So students are leaving a failing public school to enter a failing private school. Realistically, there won't be significant ROI when that happens.


If higher quality private schools accepted vouchers, I think we'd see different outcomes. In Texas, voucher schools don't have to participate in annual state testing but in Louisiana, they do. State testing is a huge pain in the arse and is a major disruption. If a private school is surviving or thriving without voucher money, they would not want to put themselves through the logistical nightmare of state testing. But, if we remove the state testing requirement, then vouchers would lack accountability so there really isn't an obvious solution to that.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139029 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

schools that accept vouchers are rated D or F to begin with
Then they should not be allowed in the program. Seems pretty simple.
quote:

vouchers would lack accountability
Parental and student choice is accountability.
But it sounds like Louisiana has found a way to screw the poor kids it angled to help.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61440 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

Then they should not be allowed in the program. Seems pretty simple.



Right, but that would eliminate unfettered school choice.

quote:

Parental and student choice is accountability.

Yes, but if we're using public funds to pay for these, there should be a more objective metric for accountability.

quote:

But it sounds like Louisiana has found a way to screw the poor kids it angled to help.
low-income children of color get screwed again.
This post was edited on 10/22/23 at 3:28 pm
Posted by GetMeOutOfHere
Member since Aug 2018
1141 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 3:33 pm to
Why are higher quality private schools higher quality?
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139029 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

Right, but that would eliminate unfettered school choice.
Sounds like the state "fettered" the choice via its jump-through-hoops reqs for superior schools.

quote:

there should be a more objective metric for accountability.
You referred to D & F schools. What could be a greater metric for unaccountability than including known shite schools in the voucher program.

quote:

low-income children of color get screwed again.
Perhaps in inner cities, but this is a tie to poverty, not melanocyte count. Insofar as intergenerational poverty affects races differently, you're certainly correct. But for me, everytime I see a kid lose a lifetime opportunity, it takes a little piece of me, regardless of skin color.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61440 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 4:02 pm to
quote:

Sounds like the state "fettered" the choice via its jump-through-hoops reqs for superior schools.

It makes someone question the real purpose of the voucher program, doesn't it?

quote:

You referred to D & F schools. What could be a greater metric for unaccountability than including known shite schools in the voucher program.

Yep.

quote:

Perhaps in inner cities, but this is a tie to poverty, not melanocyte count. Insofar as intergenerational poverty affects races differently, you're certainly correct. But for me, everytime I see a kid lose a lifetime opportunity, it takes a little piece of me, regardless of skin color.




I'm not saying we should care more about children of color, but that class is a vulnerable demographic that historically gets exploited at every turn. This is one more example.

I agree that it hurts to see how this program actually plays out and harms kids.

Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139029 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 5:09 pm to
quote:

I agree that it hurts to see how this program actually plays out and harms kids.

You may be in a better to impact it in Louisiana than I am.
Posted by Lptigerfan
Jeff Davis Parish
Member since May 2015
846 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 5:15 pm to
Here is what you will see happen: schools will accept all students (and the $$ that goes with the voucher) until the October 1 federal count. Then, they will start kicking the students out. Public schools will have to accept them due to FAPE (free and appropriate public education) and not get funded for the student
Posted by Errerrerrwere
Member since Aug 2015
44412 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 5:24 pm to
quote:

No Child Left Behind tied funding to test scores.


It's also similar to NAZI Germany with the Hitler youth.

See? NAZIs are lefties too. Different side to the same coin.
Posted by Errerrerrwere
Member since Aug 2015
44412 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 5:33 pm to
quote:

George W. Bush pushed the bullshite reading curriculum on schools.


Nope. That was his wife.
Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
15083 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 5:54 pm to
quote:

Cubbies, you've rung that bell previously. The answer is the same. Re: fire, police, rescue services, etc., my use for, or need for, or benefit from them is identical to my neighbors' therefore my cost is as well.

However, if I have well-water and solar-panels, should I have to pay for water and electricity at my neighbor's rate. Should I have to pay as if I were consuming those resources? Of course not!


Except education is both an individual good (for the student) and public good (for society). Even childless adults get something out of the education of other people's children.
Posted by Turbeauxdog
Member since Aug 2004
24273 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 6:36 pm to
quote:

I'm working on a presentation about this


That's what the world needs, a presentation from you.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61440 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 6:50 pm to
quote:

You may be in a better to impact it in Louisiana than I am.


As evidenced by this thread, shedding light on the failures of school vouchers here is like pissing In the wind.
Posted by Lickitty Split
Inside
Member since Apr 2017
4161 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 6:59 pm to
Why don’t you shed light on all the failures of your school district?

School choice and money following the student is the only way forward. The radical leftists will be left behind.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61440 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 7:15 pm to
I live in New Orleans. There are no school districts here. In fact, New Orleans is probably the most cited example of the “success” of school choice.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128844 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 8:39 pm to
quote:

I agree that it hurts to see how this program actually plays out and harms kids.


If they’re scoring basically the same in private schools, it’s not hurting them.

And Louisiana allocated $150M just for teacher raises last year. $10M is a rounding error in the state education budget.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139029 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 8:40 pm to
quote:

I live in New Orleans. There are no school districts here. In fact, New Orleans is probably the most cited example of the “success” of school choice.
Well that flipped the discussion a bit.
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