re: Let's have a sensible discussion about gun ownership, this could get good...or heated.

Anything the national guard can own a citizen should be able to own. I find everything else to be lacking, and anyone who gives an inch on gun laws deserves the mile they will take. Gun control groups have lied out of their arse to attempt to screw us out of our rights.

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1. possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime-
min. 25 yrs in jail, no parole.

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So having a pistol in your car when you get out to beat a road-blocking protester's arse?

Having a pistol in your car when you as a minor, get some beer?

Can't really go with "anyone who is mentally ill can't have a gun" either. Cause whoever determines what "mentally ill" is controls who has the guns.

Shall not be infringed. I don't care how you try to define it. If the Founding Father's didn't want us owning cannons(missiles) and warships(tanks) they would have said so. Also, let's think logically for a moment. Who can really afford any of that anyways? The ones that could afford it would be under a microscope by the ATF. It's not like people would have a cache of RPG's and Stinger's in their garage and no one know. Just like everyone knew who had a cannon back in the day.

Edit to add:
In my opinion the best gun control isn't creating laws against the gun but to create and ENFORCE laws to make people be familiar with guns. My in-laws aren't anti gun but were never a "gun family". I remember them commenting how seeing my pistol on my dresser made them uncomfortable. No one touching it or holding it. Just in its holster on top of my dresser. The country has gotten away from making people comfortable with guns and being around guns. We need to change that.

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Can't really go with "no one who is mentally ill can't have a gun" either.

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I folded on that boss, I concede.

Background: My sister got on meth in the early 80's. She was later diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. She honestly believed that the gays were out to ruin her life and possibly kill her for not converting. She made a valid attempt at suicide.

I wouldn't want her, if she were alive, having a firearm.
Could she do what she wanted with a butcher knife?
Probably so, but I doubt she would have because of the messiness of it all.

Still I concede.

While I feel the same way,

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simply red flag mentally ill people

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is the worst possible action. What happens when the gov't decides that "conservative right wing" people are mentally ill? Going the mentally ill route just gives the gov't an easier path to disarming the citizens.

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What happens when the gov't decides that "conservative right wing" people are mentally ill?

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We ignore it. I'm not for red flag laws, BTW. I was speaking more that these people are obviously insane. I'll only give up my firearms when government gives up their's first. Even then, I likely wouldn't.

No more compromise on gun-control, frick those that rally to the cry of "common sense fun laws". There is no discussion to be had, attack every gun law in the courts now and start going after gun-control groups next.

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No more compromise on gun-control, frick those that rally to the cry of "common sense fun laws". There is no discussion to be had, attack every gun law in the courts now and start going after gun-control groups next.

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Amen

Back in the mafia days they had tommy guns and all other sorts of fully automatic guns and there was mass gang killings but the mafia kept the cities under control unlike today when fully automatic guns are illegal yet criminals run Willy nilly and there are more mass shootings that we know of

Criminals only fear those with the ability to stop or kill them. Ever notice how most mass shooting happen where there are none or very few legal gun owners carrying. Anytime a mass shooting is attempted where legal gun owners are carrying it’s usually stopped with extreme predjudice by said gun owner.

I don't support gun banning at all. It absolutely is a necessity because of social and demographic realities. If we were a homogenous culture with mostly shared values then it could work. But we are not and we will never be.

Take guns out and you just hand power to criminals.

See Mexico, its exactly what happened and what would happen here. Banned guns, 2 years later Cartels rolled in and nobody could stop them.

In southern Mexico farther from the reach of the government people stayed armed and have pushed the cartels out with local militias.


I will admit however that the average american especially the school shooter types are such lazy pieces of shite that if you made it the least bit challenging to get a weapon, they wouldn't bother. And maybe that's an answer. Make it so fricking frustrating that the pieces of shite weed themselves out.


As for real solutions, armed security at EVERY school, Create some jobs. Christians and christian schools need to wake the frick up. I'm sure the families spending shitloads on tuition won't mind ponying up for security at this point.