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Started By
Message
re: Let's all come clean, why is Trump so despised and hated by some Americans?
Posted on 3/19/23 at 8:08 pm to Bass Tiger
Posted on 3/19/23 at 8:08 pm to Bass Tiger
TDS is real.
0
Posted on 3/19/23 at 8:19 pm to Tupelo
quote:
Let's just say I think his actions on Covid were reasonable based on the circumstances he faced.
I've used that exact same word regarding his covid performance, but reasonable isn't the same as optimal. He could have handled it better and I think it's a stretch to say he did as well as anybody possibly could have.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 8:20 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
Fact is, you are PISSED that you had no damn idea the difference in those 2 bills that passed.
jjdoc, you could try until your digital deathbed and never get me pissed.
The Massie tweets and Trump's response that I referred to at very start of this exchange were in March of 2020 and related to the $2T Coronavirus Relief Act. That you are so retarded that to make an argument you pretended I was referring to a different time/piece of legislation is just more evidence of your retardation.
As for Massie just grandstanding, the fact is he thought it was shitty legislation that called for shitty spending, and unlike Trump (and you), he's not an establishment slave.
In an interview with a Kentucky radio station that day, Massie signaled he would oppose the bill because of its effect on U.S. national debt, according to the Louisville-based Courier-Journal.
Here's Massie's tweet arguing it's a bad bill.
Thmas Massie proves jjdoc and Trump are GOPe AF
What's hilarious about this exchange is you will argue in another thread how Trump is fighting the establishment, and when posters (like me) laugh that - you can't understand why.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 9:31 pm to David_DJS
quote:
No, I don't. And do you know who else didn't think it was impossible? Trump. Unless you're suggesting he cynically made a campaign promise he fully knew was impossible.
[quote]
No, I think that he naively believed that the House and Senate would act in the best interests of the country when afforded the opportunity. When that didn't happen, his options were severely limited.
[quote]
But whatever Trump believed, the notion that it is impossible to deal with the border is excuse making. Hard things can be accomplished.
[quote]
Yes, with a House and Senate that are willing to do their duty, hard things can be accomplished, and the border can be dealt with. You still haven't said what could have been done barring that being the case.
[quote]
And I'm likely as mature and demanding of everyone (including myself) as you are.
It doesn't appear that way.
[quote]
It doesn't appear that you are capable of making that determination. I recognize that there are limits to what one individual can do sometimes. It's better to have someone who will at least explore their options, and accomplish what is readily achievable. Rather than people that never try at all, and kick the can down the road (as had been the case for decades before Trump).
[quote]
And who's "science" was used to do this? Trump's CDC. You never connect those dots for some reason.
[quote]
The CDC's (which far from being "Trump's", was an independent entity) science, the NIH's science, the WHO's science, and the consensus of almost all scientists throughout the world. You never seem to recognize that this was the consensus of almost all of the world's scientists at the time.
[quote]
or were too afraid of repercussions to speak out.
Think about what this says about the leadership in this country at this time.
[quote]
It says that Bureaucrats within the medical establishment were/are scared of the potential legal liabilities that come with not following CDC/NIH recommendations. That's not surprising at all. It's sad, and disappointing, but not surprising.
quote:
The numbers had fallen sharply at the end of his term.
They were on the upswing compared to Obama years before Covid.
[quote]
I don't recall that being the case. I do know that the Border Patrol agents thought that Trump's policies were beneficial, and supported them.
quote:
To try to blame Trump for the 6 million illegals that have entered under Biden since he systematically revised all of Trump's policies is an odd position to take, isn't it?
I don't blame Trump for the 6 million under Biden. I blame Trump for not fixing the border, which has allowed the dementia-riddled pedophile to open
[quote]
You still haven't said how Trump could have accomplished that task without a compliant House and Senate.
quote:
the risk of potentially sacrificing countless lives
This is the foundation of our disagreement re: Covid response. You really believed the Left/media, gov't health that the country was in real peril. I never did. Seriously, in the last 25 years, and especially once Trump took office, when have those frickers ever been honest about anything? Covid was just the new "current thing" after a long line of "current things" used to accrue power/wealth to the "right people" and erode our freedoms.
[quote]
No, I didn't believe that the country was in peril. I just didn't know for a certainty whether the country was in peril or not, regardless of my inclination. And neither did Trump, for that matter. I recognized that it was being exploited to the hilt by the Democrats, and there's little doubt in my mind the garbage mail in voting changes swung the election. It would have been foolhardy to disregard the recommendations of almost the entire world's scientists, and medical experts, based on even the strongest gut feeling. We are in apparent agreement in our disgust with the gaslighting and propaganda that has been going on in this country for a very long time.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 10:16 pm to Tupelo
I'm going to combine some of your post so we're not overly repetitive -
To answer the last question posted in that quote box would take an interesting and likely long conversation over a few beers. That's not a copout, that's reality. This forum doesn't allow for that sort of exchange, but I'll say this much -
It goes to what a president spends his political capital on. It goes to his ability to influence and lead. It goes to a president's priorities, and a well thought out/structured plan for his priorities. You describe a recalcitrant congress, but how did they get this way? How did Republicans in congress get so comfortable in opposition to Trump, even on something that finds a clear majority of support from Republican voters? Why were so many immune to strongarming from by the WH?
Also, look at the rest of Trump's actions on immigration. One example - he backtracked on his "immigration ban" during the Covid shitshow, remember that? So clearly he was responsive to big business on immigration matters, so is it possible Trump's "fight" to close the border was more for show than something, in principle, he really, really wanted to get done?
I agree with you that it wouldn't have been easy. I believe a Republican president, supported by a competent/resourceful staff, with majorities in both houses of congress, and with a strong desire to build the wall, can get it built.
Why do you think the CDC is independent? It's a part of the executive branch.
Point me to the science, then or now, that establishes lockdowns, curbing freedoms, cratering the economy, and spending $10T (Trump+Biden) to fund everything Covid plus things like topping off pensions in blue cities and states, throwing cash at teachers' unions, etc., etc - - -point me to the science that suggests any of that is how to best respond to a highly transmittable virus that's hell ONLY on the really old/frail and already very unwell.
We are in agreement on this, but you are giving a pass to those that gaslighted and propagated the propaganda + those that fell for it, and I am not.
We're not talking about gut feelings. We're talking facts and reality. And a little anecdote about the "scientists and medical experts" -
My older brother is a medical physicist and a leader in his niche (related to PET scans). He has a PhD in Medical Physics from the University of Wisconsin, and more than 25 years leading a team in a research hospital. He was fully onboard with the Covid shitshow. Believed everything the "experts" in his industry reported, and argued with me that I was completely wrong - that his industry was so virtuous and populated with such brilliant people that would never play politics with health, blah, blah, blah. This became an ongoing debate between us at the beginning of the pandemic, but he sort of disappeared from the family text/chat after I explained to him what the death certificate matching program was, and he out of hand argued I had to be wrong, there was no way what I suggested was true. Understand he had never heard of the program, but he knew without doubt I was wrong about it. Well, I wasn't. It was borne by the CDC, and it had a clear purpose.
Another anecdote - early in the Covid game there was a report out of Stanford children's hospital that called into question what "Covid hospitalization" meant. About the same time, I think it was Johns Hopkins that reported a shite ton of "Covid hospitalizations" involved people that didn't even know they had Covid or were suffering only moderate Covid symptoms. Question - how did I know about this (and everybody else that took the time to read), and Trump or any of the people around him didn't?
It wasn't a gut instinct that told me/millions of others that Covid was being hyped beyond recognition for political and financial reasons.
quote:
No, I think that he naively believed that the House and Senate would act in the best interests of the country when afforded the opportunity. When that didn't happen, his options were severely limited.
Yes, with a House and Senate that are willing to do their duty, hard things can be accomplished, and the border can be dealt with. You still haven't said what could have been done barring that being the case.
You still haven't said how Trump could have accomplished that task without a compliant House and Senate.
To answer the last question posted in that quote box would take an interesting and likely long conversation over a few beers. That's not a copout, that's reality. This forum doesn't allow for that sort of exchange, but I'll say this much -
It goes to what a president spends his political capital on. It goes to his ability to influence and lead. It goes to a president's priorities, and a well thought out/structured plan for his priorities. You describe a recalcitrant congress, but how did they get this way? How did Republicans in congress get so comfortable in opposition to Trump, even on something that finds a clear majority of support from Republican voters? Why were so many immune to strongarming from by the WH?
Also, look at the rest of Trump's actions on immigration. One example - he backtracked on his "immigration ban" during the Covid shitshow, remember that? So clearly he was responsive to big business on immigration matters, so is it possible Trump's "fight" to close the border was more for show than something, in principle, he really, really wanted to get done?
I agree with you that it wouldn't have been easy. I believe a Republican president, supported by a competent/resourceful staff, with majorities in both houses of congress, and with a strong desire to build the wall, can get it built.
quote:
The CDC's (which far from being "Trump's", was an independent entity) science
Why do you think the CDC is independent? It's a part of the executive branch.
quote:
You never seem to recognize that this was the consensus of almost all of the world's scientists at the time.
Point me to the science, then or now, that establishes lockdowns, curbing freedoms, cratering the economy, and spending $10T (Trump+Biden) to fund everything Covid plus things like topping off pensions in blue cities and states, throwing cash at teachers' unions, etc., etc - - -point me to the science that suggests any of that is how to best respond to a highly transmittable virus that's hell ONLY on the really old/frail and already very unwell.
quote:
We are in apparent agreement in our disgust with the gaslighting and propaganda that has been going on in this country for a very long time.
We are in agreement on this, but you are giving a pass to those that gaslighted and propagated the propaganda + those that fell for it, and I am not.
quote:
It would have been foolhardy to disregard the recommendations of almost the entire world's scientists, and medical experts, based on even the strongest gut feeling.
We're not talking about gut feelings. We're talking facts and reality. And a little anecdote about the "scientists and medical experts" -
My older brother is a medical physicist and a leader in his niche (related to PET scans). He has a PhD in Medical Physics from the University of Wisconsin, and more than 25 years leading a team in a research hospital. He was fully onboard with the Covid shitshow. Believed everything the "experts" in his industry reported, and argued with me that I was completely wrong - that his industry was so virtuous and populated with such brilliant people that would never play politics with health, blah, blah, blah. This became an ongoing debate between us at the beginning of the pandemic, but he sort of disappeared from the family text/chat after I explained to him what the death certificate matching program was, and he out of hand argued I had to be wrong, there was no way what I suggested was true. Understand he had never heard of the program, but he knew without doubt I was wrong about it. Well, I wasn't. It was borne by the CDC, and it had a clear purpose.
Another anecdote - early in the Covid game there was a report out of Stanford children's hospital that called into question what "Covid hospitalization" meant. About the same time, I think it was Johns Hopkins that reported a shite ton of "Covid hospitalizations" involved people that didn't even know they had Covid or were suffering only moderate Covid symptoms. Question - how did I know about this (and everybody else that took the time to read), and Trump or any of the people around him didn't?
It wasn't a gut instinct that told me/millions of others that Covid was being hyped beyond recognition for political and financial reasons.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 10:25 pm to David_DJS
quote:
The Massie tweets and Trump's response that I referred to at very start of this exchange were in March of 2020 and related to the $2T Coronavirus Relief Act.
Nope. You stated 40 GOP congressmen voted against it. No they did against an entirely different bill that was NOT CARES.
quote:
That you are so retarded that to make an argument you pretended I was referring to a different time/piece of legislation is just more evidence of your retardation.
You stated 40 voted agai9nst it. They did not. LOL! Holy COW!
quote:
As for Massie just grandstanding, the fact is he thought it was shitty legislation that called for shitty spending, and unlike Trump (and you), he's not an establishment slave.
"If it were just about helping people to get more unemployment (benefits) to get through this calamity that, frankly, the governors have wrought on the people, then I could be for it,"
Massie's words on CARES. He wasn't against the spending. And he BLAMED WHO?
The Governors!
This post was edited on 3/19/23 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 3/19/23 at 10:29 pm to Bass Tiger
He opens his mouth too much and constantly talks without thinking.
Also he needs to be off Twitter. I don't know if he's still forbidden to tweet, but he should be.
That's all I got to say. It kinda summarizes the substance of my distaste toward The Magnificent One.
Also he needs to be off Twitter. I don't know if he's still forbidden to tweet, but he should be.
That's all I got to say. It kinda summarizes the substance of my distaste toward The Magnificent One.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 10:35 pm to David_DJS
quote:
My older brother is a medical physicist and a leader in his niche (related to PET scans). He has a PhD in Medical Physics from the University of Wisconsin, and more than 25 years leading a team in a research hospital. He was fully onboard with the Covid shitshow. Believed everything the "experts" in his industry reported, and argued with me that I was completely wrong - that his industry was so virtuous and populated with such brilliant people that would never play politics with health, blah, blah, blah.
These ^^^ are the type of people Trump trusted during the COVID19 pandemic because they're allegedly "experts".... Trump believed Fauci, Birx, the NIH, the CDC, etc. were acting in the best interest of the American people, Trump didn't get the full picture of how the establishment used the COVID19 pandemic to rid themselves of Trump until he was defeated by a rigged election in 2020.....In many ways Trump can be naive and too trusting of people who stroke his ego.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 11:05 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
These ^^^ are the type of people Trump trusted during the COVID19 pandemic because they're allegedly "experts".... Trump believed Fauci, Birx, the NIH, the CDC, etc. were acting in the best interest of the American people, Trump didn't get the full picture of how the establishment used the COVID19 pandemic to rid themselves of Trump until he was defeated by a rigged election in 2020.....In many ways Trump can be naive and too trusting of people who stroke his ego.
Yes, but he shouldn't have. That was a colossal mistake, and it cost the country $10T and in other ways that may be more costly but impossible to assign dollars to.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 11:17 pm to LSU2ALA
quote:
It’s the way he conducts himself honestly. People don’t like it. That’s it. That’s the answer.
This right here.
Kari Lake was Trump with tits in AZ. Against a dem that rarely if ever got in front of the cameras.
Worked out just like 2020 for Trump.
A large percentage of voters simply will not vote for someone that is caustic all day, every day.
Say they are stupid. Call them morons.
You're not wrong but it doesn't change the facts of the matter.
And calling them names won't get them to vote for your candidate.
This post was edited on 3/19/23 at 11:18 pm
Posted on 3/19/23 at 11:30 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Kari Lake was Trump with tits in AZ ..... And calling them names won't get them to vote for your candidate.
Kari Lake made comments to the effect that if you didn't believe the 2020 election was stolen, you're not a Republican. Also, at a rally she yelled at some McCain supporters "get the hell out" - I don't care how you feel about McCain or the 2020 election, that was an impressive level of stupidity in general, but particularly so in a state that has more registered independents than registered Dems.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 11:36 pm to David_DJS
.
Because all the employees of the CDC are Civil Service. In addition, they are disproportionately Democrats. Trump couldn't fire them, and consequently had little control over them.
Your anecdotes concerning your brother are interesting, but tend to reinforce what I said regarding the mindset of most medical experts at the time. A President would tend to depend on the experts within the field above all others.
quote:
Why do you think the CDC is independent? It's a part of the executive branch.
Because all the employees of the CDC are Civil Service. In addition, they are disproportionately Democrats. Trump couldn't fire them, and consequently had little control over them.
Your anecdotes concerning your brother are interesting, but tend to reinforce what I said regarding the mindset of most medical experts at the time. A President would tend to depend on the experts within the field above all others.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 11:51 pm to Tupelo
quote:
Because all the employees of the CDC are Civil Service. In addition, they are disproportionately Democrats. Trump couldn't fire them, and consequently had little control over them.
You don't have to fire someone to put them in a box. You don't have to fire Democrats to control a major initiative (and narrative) like that for Covid. He should have brought from the outside apolitical/actual experts to steer the administration if he couldn't find any inside the CDC.
Moreover, we keep passing over the fact that there is no science behind the lockdowns, spending, etc. The "science" we're debating is about the fakery behind the "Covid stats" that drove the hysteria.
Covid response should have involved economists, logistics experts, certain industry experts, educators that would have had insight on what happens when you stop teaching/socializing kids for a year, and more.
quote:
Your anecdotes concerning your brother are interesting, but tend to reinforce what I said regarding the mindset of most medical experts at the time. A President would tend to depend on the experts within the field above all others.
But there are loads of anecdotes that come from the other end of the spectrum. The worth of an chief executive, including the president, is measured by who he chooses to listen to.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 11:52 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Also, at a rally she yelled at some McCain supporters "get the hell out" - I don't care how you feel about McCain or the 2020 election, that was an impressive level of stupidity in general, but particularly so in a state that has more registered independents than registered Dems.
But she was such a badass!
Just moronic. Against a weak arse candidate it should have been a cakewalk. Instead, let's give people a reason to hate you.
Always campaigning to the base, which you already have locked up, is ignorant.
Just like Trump.
This post was edited on 3/19/23 at 11:53 pm
Posted on 3/19/23 at 11:56 pm to David_DJS
quote:
The worth of an chief executive, including the president, is measured by who he chooses to listen to.
This right here. There is no man on this planet that can do the job of President by himself. His success hinges on who he hires and who he delegates power to.
Even Trump fans admit he is not very good at this.
Posted on 3/20/23 at 12:48 am to Big Jim Slade
quote:
It was HER turn. And when he won, the media painted him as a villain.
Yup, I vividly remember all the news channels celebrating her victory before the election even took place. How history was going to be made. They were in complete shock and denial for being so wrong.
Haven’t let up since.
Posted on 3/20/23 at 7:08 am to Tupelo
quote:
A President would tend to depend on the experts within the field above all others.
No, a President would get a broad based understanding of the overall situation from people both in and out of government, at the federal and local level, and THEN make common sense decisions.
Had Trump simply done that, he’d have recognized what a dumb country boy recognized in late March 2020 - Covid was a threat only to people who were old, or sick, or both. And he would have governed accordingly. He didn’t.
Posted on 3/20/23 at 7:22 am to Nix to Twillie
quote:
He’s an insufferable bitch.
THIS! Young women, who are trying to steer away from the objectified way women have always been seen by warrior dominated cultures, were turned off by Trump who clearly viewed women as objects rather than as equals. Then two things happened to make it worse.
1. Trump got matched against Hillary, who like it or not, became a symbol for young women that would show they had arrived.
2. The "I just grab them by the pussy." recording went around.
Hillary was a slimeball. I know that and you know that. But when Trump beat her it was symbolic of thousands of years of being treated like chattel. And young women lost their minds.
Aside from that, Trump's nature is combative, and he is not avuncular at all. I contrast him to Reagan, who was able to not just win but to realign American politics. Reagan infuriated the liberals, and they tried to demonize him just as they demonize Trump. But all the while Reagan was smiling, shaking hands and being optimistic. Trump is always snapping at reporters and insulting people. That turns off voters who we need.
You can talk about election cheating all you want, but there are no allegations of election cheating that are on a scale that would overcome Trump's 7 million vote deficit. The truth is that a solid majority of the American electorate voted against him.
Posted on 3/20/23 at 7:30 am to Plx1776
quote:
Because he's real. No filter. It's also why so many people like him. Lot of people are used to these prim and proper politicians who are polished and who live behind a facade. Trump will talk shite. He will insult people. He will basically tell people to frick off and clown them. He is as politically incorrect as they come. It's just a shock to a lot of people.
You nailed it. People have a visceral reaction to him because he doesn’t fit their image of presidential, and it embarrasses them. The dirty little secret is that their preferred politicians are just as bad, they just keep it behind closed doors.
The Trump supporters are people that care about results and don’t care what others think.
This post was edited on 3/20/23 at 7:31 am
Posted on 3/20/23 at 7:31 am to Penrod
quote:
THIS! Young women, who are trying to steer away from the objectified way women have always been seen by warrior dominated cultures, were turned off by Trump who clearly viewed women as objects rather than as equals. Then two things happened to make it worse.
Yet there are many progressive women who will sell out to the "patriarchy" to gain status in society, Hollywood types, women who court professional athletes, corporate ladder high steppers, etc. and most vote Dim. Wasn't it Trump who at one time had more women in leadership positions than most corporations? Seems I remember hearing about that.
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