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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 3:12 pm to GOP_Tiger
Posted on 10/21/25 at 3:12 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Putin certainly will not give it back, under any circumstances. But, I think there's a significant chance that this war ends with him out of power, and then all bets are off.
Sure, but most Russians say that they should get land in any peace deal with Ukraine even if they don't support the war per recent polling.
A new guy is going to take over and then give up what they just got at enormous cost in money, resources, and lives? That's hard for me to believe. There would have to be a radical change in the country for that to happen, not just Putin dying or stepping down and someone else taking the mantle.
2
Posted on 10/21/25 at 5:04 pm to Auburn1968
Exactly why I believe that Putin ultimately wants a long-standing economic & geopolitical alliance with the United States.
He sees the writing on the wall.
When it comes down to it: Russians are a hell of a lot more compatible with us then China on so many levels - and China will ultimately go after Russia’s land/resources if given the opportunity.
China is smart and has been taking full opportunity of our geopolitical stupidity that was not bringing Russia into the fold after the fall of the USSR.
He sees the writing on the wall.
When it comes down to it: Russians are a hell of a lot more compatible with us then China on so many levels - and China will ultimately go after Russia’s land/resources if given the opportunity.
China is smart and has been taking full opportunity of our geopolitical stupidity that was not bringing Russia into the fold after the fall of the USSR.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 5:13 pm to Warfox
quote:
China will ultimately go after Russia’s land/resources if given the opportunity.
What are we supposed to do about that? Jump in on Russia's side?
As far as im concerned, China taking the eastern 20% or so of Russia is inevitable. Let them have it. Maybe it will keep them from taking the Philippines or Malaysia or something similar.
They can probably do that without firing a shot, or with minimal resistance. They might even do it with the stroke of a pen when Russia is involved in another one of its collapses.
Siberia is literally zero concern of ours.
And China needs Russian resources way more than Europe needs Russian resources. I would rather see those resources come from the US and strengthen our bonds with Europe anyhow.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 5:24 pm to No Colors
quote:
As far as im concerned, China taking the eastern 20% or so of Russia is inevitable. Let them have it. Maybe it will keep them from taking the Philippines or Malaysia or something similar.
They can probably do that without firing a shot, or with minimal resistance. They might even do it with the stroke of a pen when Russia is involved in another one of its collapses.
Siberia is literally zero concern of ours.
And China needs Russian resources way more than Europe needs Russian resources. I would rather see those resources come from the US and strengthen our bonds with Europe anyhow
I have seen people in this thread say time and time again that even if you don't think Ukraine matters to the United States, hurting Russia is a good outcome for us. But we should just say "oh well!" About a country who is way more of a global threat than Russia gaining more land and power?
If you just want to support Ukraine because you like Ukraine, that's fine. But don't selectively apply the logic that "enemies weaker = good for the US", especially when in this hypothetical we would be neutralizing Russia by bringing them into our umbrella via trade, relations, and culture (something we've been pretty successful at doing elsewhere, btw) while also hurting China.
This post was edited on 10/21/25 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 10/21/25 at 5:47 pm to VolSquatch
Let me put it another way:
I dont want the EU trading with Russia. I want the EU trading with the USA, while China does whatever it wants with Russia. Those two deserve each other. They can be friends, enemies, partners.... they can merge, swap territory, conquer one another.
I don't care.
The reason there's a war raging in southern Europe right now is because of two things:
1) the EU let itself believe Russia wasn't a threat. (Wrong)
And
2) it acted in such a way that Russia came to believe that the EU was addicted to Russian fossil fuels. And thus it could get away with whatever it wanted. (Wrong again)
We reestablish ourselves as true partners to the EU. And trade with them on a fair and equitable basis. They will respect our laws and technology. And we can get a fair deal with them.
Meanwhile we isolate Russia and let them turn to China and India for their cultural and economic ties. They ought to enjoy that. They certainly deserve it.
I dont want the EU trading with Russia. I want the EU trading with the USA, while China does whatever it wants with Russia. Those two deserve each other. They can be friends, enemies, partners.... they can merge, swap territory, conquer one another.
I don't care.
The reason there's a war raging in southern Europe right now is because of two things:
1) the EU let itself believe Russia wasn't a threat. (Wrong)
And
2) it acted in such a way that Russia came to believe that the EU was addicted to Russian fossil fuels. And thus it could get away with whatever it wanted. (Wrong again)
We reestablish ourselves as true partners to the EU. And trade with them on a fair and equitable basis. They will respect our laws and technology. And we can get a fair deal with them.
Meanwhile we isolate Russia and let them turn to China and India for their cultural and economic ties. They ought to enjoy that. They certainly deserve it.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:03 pm to No Colors
quote:
As far as im concerned, China taking the eastern 20% or so of Russia is inevitable. Let them have it.
I thought you boys were against land grabbers?
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:10 pm to AU86
quote:
thought you boys were against land grabbers?
Thought you were for them?
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:16 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Sure, how often do insurgents get anything back though?
Afghanistan says hello, several times...
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:20 pm to No Colors
Your wish of Russia, India and China teaming up would work out great if we have to fight China. That would work out great for us. Many nations in the EU have already plainly stated that if we have to fight China they would be sitting it out. 90% of that bunch would not lift a finger to help us.
This post was edited on 10/21/25 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:21 pm to CitizenK
quote:
What is interesting is that Ukrainian water drones control the Black Sea now. They wouldn't work so well in the Pacific, Atlantic or Indian oceans but with that technology any of the Baltic States could choke Russian trade to all but a standstill.
I would assume Estonia and Latvia were the first ones to get in on that tech...
Then Denmark and Sweden... who could in effect control the entry/exit of the Baltic Sea if necessary.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:23 pm to cypher
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:32 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
There would have to be a radical change in the country for that to happen, not just Putin dying or stepping down and someone else taking the mantle.
No one is going to be able to hold Russia together post-Putin... and possibly not even Putin himself in the near future.
Kadyrov is on his deathbed and then who knows what happens in Chechnya... and once that kicks off, Georgia will rebel... and then...
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:40 pm to AU86
quote:
Your wish of Russia, India and China teaming up would work out great if we have to fight China.
Russia can never trust China... and neither of them can ever trust India.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:41 pm to No Colors
Both China and Russia were to come to the aid of Iran if it were attacked. Neither one did a damned thing.
Yes, both the EU and Ukraine are good for the US as trading partners and as bulwarks to Russian bullcrap. We can import Chinese steel or Ukrainian steel. Most of the drill pipe in the US today comes from China. From a friend who rented drill pipe in Bakken, they wear it out with 3 maybe 4 wells. We used to import drill pipe from Columbia and Venezuela. The Texas steel mills making drill pipe, as a specialty, in the US were demolished in the 1980's.
An interesting part is that Qatar loves selling LNG to the EU. The two GTL plants in Qatar already had Europe as their target market for zero sulfur diesel fuel.
Yes, both the EU and Ukraine are good for the US as trading partners and as bulwarks to Russian bullcrap. We can import Chinese steel or Ukrainian steel. Most of the drill pipe in the US today comes from China. From a friend who rented drill pipe in Bakken, they wear it out with 3 maybe 4 wells. We used to import drill pipe from Columbia and Venezuela. The Texas steel mills making drill pipe, as a specialty, in the US were demolished in the 1980's.
An interesting part is that Qatar loves selling LNG to the EU. The two GTL plants in Qatar already had Europe as their target market for zero sulfur diesel fuel.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:48 pm to Lee B
And we would never trust Stalin/Soviets either. Right?
Posted on 10/21/25 at 8:04 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
A new guy is going to take over and then give up what they just got at enormous cost in money, resources, and lives? That's hard for me to believe. There would have to be a radical change in the country for that to happen, not just Putin dying or stepping down and someone else taking the mantle.
If Putin were to have a heart attack and die tonight, no one would simply "take the mantle." There's no obvious successor at all (a situation which Putin has worked hard to attain, in order to prevent any possible coup). People like Kadryov, Patriarch Kirill, and various oligarchs would all try to back their favorite guy.
So a massive power struggle would quickly develop, and the victor would be the person best able to control the military and FSB in the Moscow area. It's likely that the power struggle would completely disrupt the armed forces fighting in Ukraine, as many leaders might pull forces loyal to themselves to Moscow, away from the front.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 8:23 pm to CitizenK
quote:
From a friend who rented drill pipe in Bakken, they wear it out with 3 maybe 4 wells. We used to import drill pipe from Columbia and Venezuela. The Texas steel mills making drill pipe, as a specialty, in the US were demolished in the 1980's.
Did the Texas steel pipe last longer than Chinese pipe?
Posted on 10/21/25 at 8:44 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
Did the Texas steel pipe last longer than Chinese pipe?
Same grade of steel, same specifications if not better 40 years later Drilling a well in 1/5 or less the time contributes greatly to wearing out faster. That's a lot of torque
Posted on 10/21/25 at 9:38 pm to AU86
quote:
And we would never trust Stalin/Soviets either. Right?
We didn't... but we could trust them to be Stalin/Soviets. And there was a common enemy at their gates.
China feels it has the same historical claim to Eastern Russia (and its fresh water and resources) that Russia thinks it has to Ukraine.
India hates China, and vice versa... there's as likely to be a war that breaks out between the two of them as anyplace else on the planet.
The closer Russia gets to China, the more it repels India.
CCP China still regards its pre-Mao history as much less important, so it think it is a young country.
India actually is a young country, relatively.
They both resent the old-world countries anywhere in the region (and beyond) for historical abuses...
If Putin had somehow cast that history off, when he tricked young Indians to go to Russia for IT jobs and then put them in the army and sent them to the front, he fricked that up.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 10:13 pm to Lee B
I really hope you understand why Afghanistan is a bad comparison, and not even a real example if we get down to it.
This post was edited on 10/21/25 at 10:14 pm
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