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Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.
Posted on 10/20/25 at 5:09 pm to Lee B
Posted on 10/20/25 at 5:09 pm to Lee B
quote:
the Eastern Bloc countries wanted out
Even after they had left there was still a chance that a smaller Soviet Union could emerge. The death of the Soviet Union was December 1, 1991 when 92% of all Ukraine voters voted for independence from the USSR. Independence won even in Crimea, though by a slimmer margin. Russia pulled the plug on the Soviet Union because what would be left would potentially be majority Muslim, and they just didn't see the USSR as being functional without Ukraine. What is going on now is pay back by Putin for that vote; and the most important step for a new Russian empire is to bring Ukraine back; willing or not.
3
Posted on 10/20/25 at 5:57 pm to Tigris
A huge error has been committed by some think tanks who think that old idle for a decade+ units can just be started up again in the Russian refineries. Thus, production loss is not that bad.
IF they have kept the equipment under a nitrogen purge after properly decommission by flushing with diesel to remove heavies and solids, then maybe. I seriously doubt that any of this occurred and that the equipment was OLD and tired to begin with.
Also, piping was likely disconnected and valves robbed. Then there is integration with MAYBE old pneumatic process controls with modern digital controls. Who knows what pumps were "borrowed" to replace pumps in other units, along with pressure vessels and heat exchangers robbed for process modification in other units over these years.
Think tanks have no clue how refinery operations are handled..
IF they have kept the equipment under a nitrogen purge after properly decommission by flushing with diesel to remove heavies and solids, then maybe. I seriously doubt that any of this occurred and that the equipment was OLD and tired to begin with.
Also, piping was likely disconnected and valves robbed. Then there is integration with MAYBE old pneumatic process controls with modern digital controls. Who knows what pumps were "borrowed" to replace pumps in other units, along with pressure vessels and heat exchangers robbed for process modification in other units over these years.
Think tanks have no clue how refinery operations are handled..
Posted on 10/20/25 at 6:25 pm to CitizenK
quote:
A huge error has been committed by some think tanks who think that old idle for a decade+ units can just be started up again in the Russian refineries. Thus, production loss is not that bad.
Link?
Posted on 10/20/25 at 10:23 pm to LSURussian
ISW supports the notion that Russia is embellishing their progress. They a creeping East, but with little to really show for the 1000s of casualties.
ISW
quote:
Key Takeaways
US President Donald Trump’s October 17 meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky reportedly ended with Trump supporting a ceasefire on the current frontlines and not Russian President Vladimir Putin’s demands that Ukraine cede territory in Donetsk Oblast to Russia.
Kremlin voices clarified Russia’s position on negotiations following Western reporting about the October 17 Trump-Zelensky meeting in order to reiterate that Russia remains committed to addressing the alleged “root causes” of the war and is unwilling to agree to a ceasefire.
The Kremlin is priming the Russian people for a full victory in Ukraine whatever the cost — a domestic effort that is at odds with Putin’s reported willingness to make territorial concessions.
The Kremlin is leaning into its cognitive warfare effort to portray Russian forces as relentlessly advancing and a Russian victory as inevitable. This effort aims to obscure the reality that Russian forces are only making minimal gains at disproportionately high manpower costs and that Russia is unlikely to obtain its strategic objectives by force in the short- or medium-term.
Russian officials are also attempting to falsely portray ongoing limited Russian operations in the Kherson direction as the start of a new major Russian offensive in the province.
The Kremlin is attempting to use all available informational avenues to convince the United States, Europe, and Ukraine to acquiesce to the Kremlin’s demands by convincing them that a Russian vict in Ukraine is certain when it is anything but.
Kremlin officials are attempting to present Ukraine as the obstacle to peace to obfuscate how Putin himself has been impeding the process by insisting that Ukraine cede more territory than Russian forces currently occupy. Ukrainian forces recently advanced in the Siversk direction. Russian forces recently advanced in the Velykyi Burluk direction.
ISW
Posted on 10/20/25 at 11:47 pm to Lee B
quote:
Well, again... you have much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much more faith in Trump than I do,
If he had not parroted Putin's talking points in that meeting I might have your optimism...
It's not about faith in Trump. It's about the fact that our pro-Ukrainian European allies have much more to offer us than Russia does. Sure, some of those countries are represented by lefty governments that Trump dislikes, but others (such as Italy) are not.
Meloni might be President Trump's favorite foreign leader, and the Italian economy is larger than Russia's, both in terms of GDP and in purchasing power parity.
The numbers have always dictated that America would continue to side with our allies. Trump obviously likes Putin more than Zelensky, and I think that is relevant to the recent situation, but it's far from the only factor.
Besides all of that, the GOP base favors Ukraine, as do GOP congressional leaders. So, we go through these cycles where Trump talks to Putin, and Putin tells him that Zelensky cost him the 2020 election, and Trump feels a little more pro-Russia, and then everything else pulls him back.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 12:13 am to GOP_Tiger
Well, you have much, much, much, much, much, much more faith in Trump being pulled back continually than I do.
All the things you mentioned are correct and real... yet, one phone call...
All the things you mentioned are correct and real... yet, one phone call...
Posted on 10/21/25 at 12:21 am to Lee B
MEDIAITE (via YahooNews!: Russian State TV Pundit Says ‘Putin Understands Trump All Too Well’ and ‘Can Manipulate Him’
“Putin’s puppet – that is how Russian state media is portraying Trump tonight after the president did a complete 180 when it comes to the war in Ukraine,” she said. “This time, after that, two-and-a-half-hour phone call with Putin requested, Trump is now, once again, after that call coming to Putin’s defense, telling Zelensky in a meeting that reportedly turned into a shouting match that Putin would destroy his country if he didn’t agree to ending the war on Putin’s terms.”
If you bother to watch the clip, he describes Putin being able to “lead Trump around by the nose.”
Granted, this is for Russian consumption, to bolster that Putin is feared by the leader of the United States (and NATO)... but it's interesting that it pissing off Trump if he hears about it is not even part of the calculus.
“Putin’s puppet – that is how Russian state media is portraying Trump tonight after the president did a complete 180 when it comes to the war in Ukraine,” she said. “This time, after that, two-and-a-half-hour phone call with Putin requested, Trump is now, once again, after that call coming to Putin’s defense, telling Zelensky in a meeting that reportedly turned into a shouting match that Putin would destroy his country if he didn’t agree to ending the war on Putin’s terms.”
If you bother to watch the clip, he describes Putin being able to “lead Trump around by the nose.”
Granted, this is for Russian consumption, to bolster that Putin is feared by the leader of the United States (and NATO)... but it's interesting that it pissing off Trump if he hears about it is not even part of the calculus.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 2:07 am to Lee B
Russia sanctions bill on hold for now, Thune says
The Senate majority leader said Republicans want to see if President Donald Trump’s meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin is “fruitful.”
The decision to press pause comes after Thune indicated Thursday that it was time to move on the legislation, which would impose tariffs on countries that import Russian oil and gas and implement secondary sanctions on foreign firms that support Russian energy production.
But the same day Thune spoke out, Trump held a long phone call with Putin and subsequently questioned whether it was the right time to move forward with the sanctions legislation.
The sanctions bill has more than 80 cosponsors, giving it enough support that it could overcome opposition from Trump. But Republicans have been reluctant to move forward without an explicit endorsement from the president.
The concern is that if GOP leadership were to move forward without Trump’s public approval, it would put their members in a politically difficult spot if he were to subsequently come out against the bill.
Politico
The Senate majority leader said Republicans want to see if President Donald Trump’s meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin is “fruitful.”
The decision to press pause comes after Thune indicated Thursday that it was time to move on the legislation, which would impose tariffs on countries that import Russian oil and gas and implement secondary sanctions on foreign firms that support Russian energy production.
But the same day Thune spoke out, Trump held a long phone call with Putin and subsequently questioned whether it was the right time to move forward with the sanctions legislation.
The sanctions bill has more than 80 cosponsors, giving it enough support that it could overcome opposition from Trump. But Republicans have been reluctant to move forward without an explicit endorsement from the president.
The concern is that if GOP leadership were to move forward without Trump’s public approval, it would put their members in a politically difficult spot if he were to subsequently come out against the bill.
Politico
Posted on 10/21/25 at 4:28 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Yeah, I feel increasingly confident that the Budapest meeting will not occur.
The "pre-meeting" that Rubio and Lavrov were supposed to have is already indefinitely postponed.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 7:12 am to GOP_Tiger
EU closes in on deal to use Russian frozen assets to fund Ukraine
Politico:
Politico:
quote:
BRUSSELS — EU leaders are set to instruct the European Commission to design a legal proposal to use billions of euros in Russian frozen state assets to fund a massive loan to Ukraine, after Belgium signaled it would not stand in the way.
The controversial proposal, if adopted, could release up to €140 billion to fund Ukraine's war effort for another two to three years, using Russian state assets that were immobilized after its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.
The European Commission, which has executive power in the EU, first floated the idea in September, but has been waiting for the explicit blessing of European heads of state and government before it moves ahead with a concrete proposal. This is likely to come when the 27 EU leaders hold their quarterly European Council meeting in Brussels on Thursday.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 8:00 am to cypher
Like I said
No Sanctions
No Tomahawks
Sorry Ukraine Firsters.
While those strong EU "allies" vow to stop buying Russian gas by 2028.
Kind of hypocritical to demand that India stops immediately while the socialists in the EU continue to fund Russia's war to 2028.
This one is for you CitizenKuck.
No Sanctions
No Tomahawks
Sorry Ukraine Firsters.
While those strong EU "allies" vow to stop buying Russian gas by 2028.
Kind of hypocritical to demand that India stops immediately while the socialists in the EU continue to fund Russia's war to 2028.
This one is for you CitizenKuck.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 8:02 am to cypher
US stalling Ukraine's reparations loan from Russian assets – Bloomberg
Mon, October 20, 2025 - 20:20
The United States opposes the initiative proposed by EU leaders to expand the use of frozen Russian assets by providing a reparations loan to Ukraine, Bloomberg reports.
According to the outlet, US officials told European partners at IMF meetings in Washington last week that they will not join the initiative at this stage.
One source said the US explained its position citing risks to financial market stability, while another noted that Washington is simply not ready for this step yet.
The US Treasury did not respond to requests for comment. In September, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said Washington is open to using about $5 billion of Russian assets frozen in the US, but no final decision on their seizure has been made.
RBC-Ukraine
Mon, October 20, 2025 - 20:20
The United States opposes the initiative proposed by EU leaders to expand the use of frozen Russian assets by providing a reparations loan to Ukraine, Bloomberg reports.
According to the outlet, US officials told European partners at IMF meetings in Washington last week that they will not join the initiative at this stage.
One source said the US explained its position citing risks to financial market stability, while another noted that Washington is simply not ready for this step yet.
The US Treasury did not respond to requests for comment. In September, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said Washington is open to using about $5 billion of Russian assets frozen in the US, but no final decision on their seizure has been made.
RBC-Ukraine
Posted on 10/21/25 at 8:09 am to cypher
quote:
US stalling Ukraine's reparations loan from Russian assets – Bloomberg
What was it that you Ukraine Firsters have been touting or crowing about for a month?
General Bill the geopolitical expert assured us all that Trump had turned on Putin. Had figured him out.
Anyone that sees this objectively and not through Ukraine Firsters emotions should have known that Trump has been setting up the scenario to distance himself from this fiasco.
I told you that Trump is back in Dove mode. Anyone with a brain could see what was coming after that phone call. Trump the deal maker is looking long term and realizes the longterm importance of a relationship with Russia and trying to draw them away from China if he can and by preventing a costly second cold war in Europe that keeps the US tied there another 80 years. We don't need another cold war standoff in Europe that the US taxpayer has to pay for. We have to look to China. We can't afford two fronts.
Sorry but the facts are Ukraine is not as important as Russia is strategically.
Just a fact. Nothing personal Z.
This post was edited on 10/21/25 at 8:29 am
Posted on 10/21/25 at 8:17 am to AU86
quote:
Anyone that seems this objectively and not through Ukraine Firsters emotions should have known that Trump has been setting up the scenario to distance himself from this fiasco
Trump sees it as an unsolvable problem, and for now he is right. Ukraine won't budge and neither will Russia.
There really is nothing to do be done in this case outside of absolutely ratcheting up the aid to Ukraine, which his supporters are mixed on at best and his VP is actively against.
Ukraine might not even own the minerals they are trying to give us by the end of this, and Russia knows any economic deal can be wiped out by the next admin basically immediately, and probably will be if the Democrats get the presidency.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 8:32 am to VolSquatch
quote:
Ukraine won't budge and neither will Russia.
Been saying this for weeks. They are going to fight until the end. No Tomahawks or sanctions are going to end this.
Z nor Putin aren't willing or able to budge one inch.
This post was edited on 10/21/25 at 7:13 pm
Posted on 10/21/25 at 8:52 am to AU86
quote:
US stalling Ukraine's reparations loan from Russian assets – Bloomberg
What was it that you Ukraine Firsters have been touting or crowing about for a month?
Do check the date on that article: yesterday. Today's news is that the EU is going ahead without US participation. Of the $150 billion in frozen assets, only $5 billion is held by the US, so our participation is not essential in any way.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 9:11 am to AU86
Talk to Orban who is Putin's puppet first. He could have had other sources but wanted to be reliant on his podna, Putin
quote:
While those strong EU "allies" vow to stop buying Russian gas by 2028.
Posted on 10/21/25 at 9:13 am to AU86
quote:
Been saying this for weeks. They are going to fight until the end. No Tomahawks or sanctions are going to end this.
Z nor Putin aren't willing or able to budget one inch.
Russian small businesses are not doing well. Steel purchases down. Fuel availability off by 20%
LINK
Posted on 10/21/25 at 9:32 am to GOP_Tiger
These terms have been attributed to Putin:
Russia gets all of the four Oblasts, and Crimea. This included surrendering key defensive strongholds that Ukraine currently holds.
Ukraine had to scale down its military.
Ukraine had to change governments.
No NATO for Ukraine.
All sanctions against Russia lifted.
There’s no way Z can accept that.
Russia gets all of the four Oblasts, and Crimea. This included surrendering key defensive strongholds that Ukraine currently holds.
Ukraine had to scale down its military.
Ukraine had to change governments.
No NATO for Ukraine.
All sanctions against Russia lifted.
There’s no way Z can accept that.
This post was edited on 10/21/25 at 12:17 pm
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