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Posted on 1/28/18 at 12:32 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:Unfortunately they aren't. They are from a Wikipedia article that cited holysmoke.org in a link that is now broken.
The numbers were from the Alan Guttmacher Institute.
It completely disagrees with the actual study and is a COMPLETE LIE.
quote:Absolutely
So let's reassess.
Do you still intend to defend the claim that "Almost all late term abortions are for fetal abnormalities or the life of the mother"?
This post was edited on 1/28/18 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 1/28/18 at 1:55 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Unfortunately they aren't. They are from a Wikipedia article that cited holysmoke.org in a link that is now broken.
Here is the direct citation:
quote:
Torres, Aida and Forrest, Jacqueline Darroch. (1988). Why Do Women Have Abortions. Family Planning Perspectives, 20 (4), 169-176.
Look, at some point you need to figure out that people here are going to call you on your bullshite. Maybe completely making up shite in support of your argument flies over at DU (in fact, I know it does) but it won't work here.
quote:
Absolutely
Then you should easily be able to find actual evidence in support.
ETA:
Since mmgrath won't likely be replying to this thread, I believe it's important to point out that the 2013 study that I cited earlier was funded, in part, by the Guttmacher Institute which is a pro-abortion policy and research organization. The institute was seeking validation for certain arguments in favor of late term abortions but the results clearly showed that the fetal demise/health of the mother argument was greatly exaggerated. As such Guttmacher now focuses its arguments on inequality to Healthcare principles and has reduced the former argument to this despite the rest of its arguments being a sea of data:
quote:
Women sometimes choose to terminate a pregnancy because of fetal medical conditions or because pregnancy poses a threat to their health.
This post was edited on 1/28/18 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 1/28/18 at 2:25 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Such is the problem with being a "big tent," populist party. The DNC has to court ever extremist group around in order to create a coalation capable of winning a national election. Here, they have to give in to the whims of anti-intellectual, third-wave feminists despite the fact that this harms another demographic they court.
Spot on, but I wouldn't call it "populism." Populism attempts to find ways to unite all people against the elite. There's no such common denominator in the DNC's strategy. Rather, any group that disagrees with conservative Judeo-Christian principles is stitched together with all the other patchwork.
Posted on 1/28/18 at 2:33 pm to TigersSEC2010
quote:
She's from California. They're down to abort them after birth.
At what age does a Californian consider this age to be especially since they really don't embrace the death penalty for the convicted? Really quite odd in some regards.
Posted on 1/28/18 at 4:19 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Then you should easily be able to find actual evidence in support.
I have. In the actual reports from the Guttmacher institute.
Of ALL abortions 12 percent cite the health of the fetus and 13 percent cite their own health. And that percentage rises in abortions during later gestation dates.
Obviously there is something left out of your table, like a limited number of respondents or simply in response to "why are you doing it later" not being understood.
Posted on 1/28/18 at 5:16 pm to OMLandshark
This one will bite her in her dumb arse when she ventures from the borders of her crazy fricking state.
This post was edited on 1/28/18 at 7:05 pm
Posted on 1/28/18 at 7:03 pm to texridder
quote:
Should the Democrats adopt the same stance as the Republican have on gun control.
Any restriction, even the slightest, is just part of the slippery slope heading inexorably to abolishment.
Show me the constitutional right to have an abortion
Posted on 1/28/18 at 7:04 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
your wife goes for a 20 week check up and the doctor said the baby has a zero chance at survival and has organs growing outside of its body, you think the government should be the one that tells you what to do?
There is a difference between a legitimate medical issue and just killing a baby because you decide you don't want it
Posted on 1/28/18 at 7:13 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Of ALL abortions 12 percent cite the health of the fetus and 13 percent cite their own health.
Since when is 12% the "vast majority?"
And that study is from 2005. One of reasons Guttmacher was more specific in its analysis in 2013 was because the 2005 five study allowed respondents to claim as many reasons as possible without any medical support. For instance, within the 13% citing "health of the mother," the number one response was because she "felt too ill during the pregnancy."
For fetal health:
quote:
Women who felt that their fetus's health had been compromised cited concerns such as a lack of prenatal care, the risk of birth defects due to advanced maternal age, a history of miscarriages, maternal cocaine use and fetal exposure to prescription medications.
So the actual percentages for abortions necessary for terminal fetal conditions are considerably less than the 12% cited.
And remember this the study conducted by arguable the largest pro-choice organization in the country.
Posted on 1/28/18 at 7:29 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:Did you miss the "of all abortions", including the 98.7% that occur by 20 weeks?
Since when is 12% the "vast majority?"
Yes, some replies might not be perfect, but most studies can't even touch the 20+ week group because most of their abortions are done in a hospital, which should tell you more about the reasons for the abortion.
Posted on 1/28/18 at 7:46 pm to OMLandshark
thanks for linking this, just signed the petition
Posted on 1/28/18 at 7:57 pm to OMLandshark
Yes... we should be able to pinch their nostrils when they are born or submerge them in water. It is all about a woman's right to choose right?
Posted on 1/28/18 at 8:00 pm to OMLandshark
Stopping abortion is immoral? Well that’s certainly a new spin on morality.
These people are damn near soulless.
These people are damn near soulless.
Posted on 1/28/18 at 8:04 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Stopping abortion is immoral? Well that’s certainly a new spin on morality.
And a 5 month baby at that. Really if I sucker punch a woman in the stomach and she loses the baby that's 20 weeks, it's second degree murder. Just ridiculous by her.
Posted on 1/28/18 at 8:10 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Did you miss the "of all abortions", including the 98.7% that occur by 20 weeks?
No, I saw it. I'm not sure what your argument is here. We have two separate studies cited by the same group that say that fetal health is not a significant reason for choosing abortion either before or after 20 weeks. Yet, there was a post earlier that spurned this entire conversation that said it was the reason on the vast majority of cases after 20 weeks. That was a lie.
quote:
Yes, some replies might not be perfect, but most studies can't even touch the 20+ week group because most of their abortions are done in a hospital, which should tell you more about the reasons for the abortion.
That typical abortion facilities aren't equipped to handle the complexities of a 20+ week procedure.
Posted on 1/28/18 at 8:52 pm to NIH
quote:
She and the other token candidates the Dems seem to like would be disasters in a general election.
How is she a token? She is the attorney general of California. I don’t agree with her politics but she is accomplished.
Posted on 1/29/18 at 7:38 am to mmcgrath
quote:Of course they are!
The numbers were from the Alan Guttmacher Institute.
Unfortunately they aren't.
Here is a later study citing nearly identical results. ( LINK)
Only difference being Maternal and Fetal Health is lumped together, and included this caveat:
quote:
In the United States, only a small fraction (8%) of the women who reported fetal defect as a contributing reason said that they had been advised by a physician that the fetus may be deformed or abnormal, suggesting that many women may be making this determination on their own.
LINK
Posted on 1/29/18 at 7:47 am to mmcgrath
quote:Then you are keenly aware of admittedly loose standards the GI often uses in categorizing Maternal Health and Fetal Problems. Right?
I have. In the actual reports from the Guttmacher institute.
And even given the padded stats, nowhere is there an assertion that the vast majority of abortions are performed for maternal health or fetal defect.
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