re: John Cleese: “I Prefer Cultures That Don’t Tolerate Female Genital Mutilation”

quote:

---

Only one is very bad with permanent physical damage, which is why equating the two is asinine

---

I'm not listing them all from the article, but the article uses referenced studies. And I'm not judging anyone on this. The vast majority of people didn't choose to be circumcised or not. And if it is your religion that is perfectly fine, that is your culture, I get why you do it. I just think it should be a choice to do is all, not forced.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage

Circumcision is often performed on infants without anesthetic or with a local anesthetic that is ineffective at substantially reducing pain (Lander et al., 1997). In a study by Lander and colleagues (1997), a control group of infants who received no anesthesia was used as a baseline to measure the effectiveness of different types of anesthesia during circumcision. The control group babies were in so much pain—some began choking and one even had a seizure—they decided it was unethical to continue. It is important to also consider the effects of post-operative pain in circumcised infants (regardless of whether anesthesia is used), which is described as “severe” and “persistent” (Howard et al., 1994). In addition to pain, there are other negative physical outcomes including possible infection and death (Van Howe, 1997, 2004).

Research has demonstrated the hormone cortisol, which is associated with stress and pain, spikes during circumcision (Talbert et al., 1976; Gunnar et al., 1981). Although some believe that babies “won’t remember” the pain, we now know that the body “remembers” as evidenced by studies which demonstrate that circumcised infants are more sensitive to pain later in life (Taddio et al., 1997). Research carried out using neonatal animals as a proxy to study the effects of pain on infants’ psychological development have found distinct behavioral patterns characterized by increased anxiety, altered pain sensitivity, hyperactivity, and attention problems (Anand & Scalzo, 2000). In another similar study, it was found that painful procedures in the neonatal period were associated with site-specific changes in the brain that have been found to be associated with mood disorders (Victoria et al., 2013).

The CDC fails to consider that many medical procedures, even those that are described as routine, are often experienced as traumatic by children and adolescents (Levine & Kline, 2007). Circumcision, for example, clearly meets the clinical definition of trauma because it involves a violation of physical integrity. In fact, research has demonstrated that medical traumas in childhood and adolescence share many of the same psychological elements of childhood abuse, such as physical pain, fear, loss of control, and the perception that the event is a form of punishment (Nir, 1985; Shalev, 1993, Shopper, 1995).

The studies found that these procedures often produce symptoms which are very similar to those of childhood sexual abuse, including dissociation and the development of a negative body image. The effects often persist into adulthood as evidenced by a study that examined the effects of childhood penile surgery for hypospadias. Men who had this surgery in childhood experienced more depressive symptoms, anxiety, and interpersonal difficulties than men who did not have the surgery (Berg & Berg, 1983).

The Majority of Boys Circumcised as Children and Adolescents Meet Diagnostic Criteria for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

I'm not really using this as evidence, I just saw it in the links and had to post it
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/mens-health/11334800/Circumcision-doubles-autism-risk-study-claims.html
Boys circumcised before the age of five are twice as likely to develop autism, according to a controversial Danish study of over 300,000 children

https://www.cirp.org/library/psych/brain_damage/

Modern scientific research indicates that early childhood trauma, especially during the first two years of life when the brain is still rapidly developing, produces permanent adverse physical changes in brain development.

quote:

---

And your article is pushing an agenda so hard it's not even funny.

---

Obviously I'm looking for things to prove my opinion. If it wasn't referencing studies I wouldn't have posted it. The last link has all these references. But I'm dropping this now. I'm not judging anyone on this topic. But forced genital mutilation is wrong and it does have permanent ramifications to do to a baby.


Anders T, Sachar E, Kream J et al. Behavioral state and plasma cortisol response in the human neonate. Pediatrics 1970; 46(4):532-537.
Talbert LM, Kraybill EN, and Potter HM. Adrenal cortical response to circumcision in the neonate. Obstet Gynecol 1976;46(2):208-210.
Richards MPM, Bernal, JF, Brackbill Y. Early behavioral differences: gender or circumcision? Dev Psychobiol 1976;9(1):89-95.
Rawlings DJ, Miller PA, Engel RR. The effect of circumcision on transcutaneous PO2 in term infants.Am J Dis Child 1980 Jul;134(7):676-8.
Gunnar MR, Fisch RO, Korsvik S, Donhowe JM. The effects of circumcision on serum cortisol and behavior. Psychoneuroendocrinology 1981; 6(3)269-275.
Anand KJS, Hickey PR. Pain and its effects in the human neonate and fetus. New Engl J Med 1987; 317 (21):1321-1329.
Jacobson B, Eklund G, Hamberger L, et al. Perinatal origin of adult self-destructive behavior. Acta Psychiatr Scand 1987 Oct;76(4):364-71
American Psychiatric Association. 309.81 Posttraumatic Stress Disorder. In: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition. American Psychiatric Association, Washington 1994:424-429.
Walco GA, Cassidy RC, Schechter NL. The ethics of pain control in infants and children. N Engl J Med 1994; 331 (8): 541-544.
van der Kolk, B.A. The body keeps the score: Memory and the emerging psychobiology of post traumatic stress. Harvard Review of Psychiatry 1994; 1: 253-265.
Daniel Goleman. Early violence leaves its mark on the brain. The New York Times, Tuesday, October 3, 1995: C1.
Bower B. Exploring trauma's cerebral side. Science News 1996; 149:315
Lloyd-Thomas AR. Fitzgerald M. Reflex responses do not necessarily signify pain. BMJ 1996;313:797-798.
Taddio A, Katz J, Ilersich AL, et al. Effect of neonatal circumcision on pain response during subsequent routine vaccination. The Lancet 1997;349:599-603.
Van Howe RS. Neonatal circumcision. Lancet 1997; 349:1257-1258.
Fitzgerald M. The birth of pain. MRC News (London) Summer 1998:20-23.
Jacobson B, Bygdeman M. Obstetric care and proneness of offspring to suicide. BMJ 1998; 317:1346-49.
Stang HJ, Snellman LW. Circumcision practice patterns in the United States. Pediatrics 1998; 101: e5.
Immerman RS, Mackey WC. A biocultural analysis of circumcision: a kinder gentler tumescence Social Biology 1998; 44:265-275.
Immerman RS, Mackey WC. A proposed relationship between circumcision and neural reorganization. Journal of Genetic Psychology 1998; 159(3):367-378.
Goldman R. The psychological impact of circumcision. BJU International 1999;83 Suppl. 1:93-103.
Rhinehart J. Neonatal circumcision reconsidered. Transactional Analysis Journal 1999; 29(3):215-221.
Anand KJ, Scalzo FM. Can adverse neonatal experiences alter brain development and subsequent behavior? Biol Neonate 2000 Feb;77(2):69-82.
American Academy of Pediatrics. Committee on Fetus and Newborn, Committee on Drugs, Section on Anesthesiology, Section on Surgery. Prevention and Management of Pain and Stress in the Neonate. Pediatrics 2000;105(2):454-461.
Hill G. Kraemer's review contraindicates newborn male non-therapeutic circumcision. BMJ 2000 Rapid Responses. 22 December 2000.
Teicher M. Cerebrum 2000;2:50-67.

quote:

---

The Majority of Boys Circumcised as Children and Adolescents Meet Diagnostic Criteria for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

---

This might be the funniest thing I’ve ever read... no ptsd here. I’m extremely happy to have a hog with a Vader helmet. You’re just trying to justify having a peen that looks like a pig in a blanket.

quote:

---

That's like those gals that cut off their boobs because they may get cancer at some point.


Wow, you are a stupid bastard. They do it pre-emptively if they've undergone testing and have been found with the hereditary trait that causes breast cancer.

---

Oh okay. That's totally different.

Cleese is rapidly rising on the Globalist Left's shite List. He'd better watch his back.

quote:

---

Will this will be considered racist by all those who hover, eagerly hoping that someone will offend them - on someone else's behalf, naturally

---

That's beautiful

quote:

---

One is done because they are afraid you can't wash your dick off in a shower? Impressive.

---

I noticed you refused to address the actual reasons for FGM.

Namely, preventing vaginal odor and ensuring woman can receive no pleasure from sex.

Versus personal hygiene and disease prevention.

Last but not least, 1 day old versus 10 years old --- yeah, quite the same thing.

quote:

---

A British patriot

---

quote:

---

John Cleese better high-tail it out of the country.

---

He hauled arse from Britain decades ago

He's now a damn immigrant, himself, in a tax haven

quote:

---

“diversity is our greatest strength”.

---

Biggest lie ever told by the left

quote:

---

eagerly hoping that someone will offend them - on someone else's behalf, naturally

---

I've said it before but the white progressive's super power is the ability to feel outrage on behalf of another race or culture.

quote:

---

Does his statement offend you?

---

I don't get offended

That doesn't mean I'm not going to respond to people that seem to be clueless about the subject of the thread