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Message
re: Joel Osteens church gets burglarized over night.
Posted on 3/12/14 at 11:36 pm to darkhorse
Posted on 3/12/14 at 11:36 pm to darkhorse
quote:
LOL!! No. It shows what even oprah (your hero) acknowledged.
Oprah's a self help idiot...very gullible like you.
quote:
What's sad is that due to your hate for Christians and churches you can't even open your eyes to see what they are doing in the community. You simply want to hate. The reason? Maybe it's because you are afraid of the truth?
We're talking about The Osteen family biz and televangelist generally...it appears many if not most Christians agree with me.
quote:
Yep and all the MILLIONS AND MILLIONS it takes is buying his books over and over and over to keep him in the top! LOL!
Maybe that made LOL-sense in your head?
1
Posted on 3/12/14 at 11:41 pm to darkhorse
quote:
LOL!! No. It shows what even oprah (your hero) acknowledged.
Proof she stands as such for cwill?
quote:
what they are doing in the community
Well then, what are they doing that they're not profiting ridiculously off of?
Posted on 3/12/14 at 11:42 pm to cwill
quote:
it appears many if not most Christians agree with me.
Even Karla agrees with you.
Posted on 3/12/14 at 11:45 pm to cwill
Look them up. See what they do. It's not that hard. Would it have been placed in a trust? I'm sure that's not so uncommon of a thing. Where is the crime???
People Mag.. Osteen.. No salary.
People Mag.. Osteen.. No salary.
Posted on 3/12/14 at 11:50 pm to cwill
quote:
Everyone knows through your many posts that you're the one who has chosen a life of ignorance.
Ha! Right. Because I look at facts without bias. Sorry you can't do that Cwill.
quote:
You never address things that clearly crash your argument and are dishonest in other respects.
Not at all. Just what you need to try and convince yourself of.
quote:
And I don't see how Obama relates to this
Sure you do.
quote:
I think charity should be voluntary
Really? Except when it's a church or a rich pastor. Don't forget the exclusion clause.
quote:
no one should be getting rich
Unless they give you a portion.
Posted on 3/12/14 at 11:55 pm to darkhorse
I was on the Board and was Treasurer of an independent, nondenominational church founded in 2004 with 8 people. In 2012, when my wife and I retired and moved, that church averaged 1700+ people attending its 2 Sunday services. That church averaged $40K in offerings every week. Most of that came as checks and online giving. We averaged about $5K a week in cash donations. We always kept a cash fund of exactly $1000.00 on hand and deposited those checks and cash quickly on Mondays.
I can see a church like Lakewood Church in HOuston getting $600K in cash donations in one weekend. If they were burglarized at the right time, thieves could get that much.
I can see a church like Lakewood Church in HOuston getting $600K in cash donations in one weekend. If they were burglarized at the right time, thieves could get that much.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:01 am to CITWTT
quote:
Joel Osteens church gets burglarized over night.
Who the hell keeps over 600K in the petty cash box at a business?
How is this a political topic?
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:02 am to darkhorse
Stop the presses, because I do agree with cwill. 
Where we differ, and it's cool, is that I'm 100% supportive of people who run an honest ministry and have their priorities in order. It's supposed to be about saving souls, teaching the Word, etc.
They aren't supposed to take a vow of poverty. I haven't said that. I forget what Billy Graham's current salary is, but I believe it's in excess of 300K. I have no problem with that.
That's a lot different from a whole family becoming multi-millionaires. Even if somebody thinks Osteen deserves to be a multi-millionaire, can somebody please tell me why the whole family deserves to be multi-millionaires?
Oh, and thanks for refusing to call me by my abbreviated name, sentrius. Classy
Where we differ, and it's cool, is that I'm 100% supportive of people who run an honest ministry and have their priorities in order. It's supposed to be about saving souls, teaching the Word, etc.
They aren't supposed to take a vow of poverty. I haven't said that. I forget what Billy Graham's current salary is, but I believe it's in excess of 300K. I have no problem with that.
That's a lot different from a whole family becoming multi-millionaires. Even if somebody thinks Osteen deserves to be a multi-millionaire, can somebody please tell me why the whole family deserves to be multi-millionaires?
Oh, and thanks for refusing to call me by my abbreviated name, sentrius. Classy
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:31 am to KCT
quote:
How many books did he sell before he became the pastor of that church?
Doesn't really matter. No where in the Bible does it say a pastor should be poor. I have asked again and again for you to produce the scriptures that say one should.
quote:
You can't just say that he makes money from the sale of books.
Is that false? No.
quote:
That's no different from a ministry selling tapes of their sermons
Yes.. Yes it is. 100% different. these are not books of his sermons that are readily available at no cost.
quote:
And, it's not just Joel Osteen. It's the whole family.
Is it against the Bible to give money to family?
quote:
If people can't see where that's wrong, I can't help them.
You are advocating that it's wrong and the Bible says so. If you are that certain please support your argument by providing the scriptures, rightly divided, that prove that point. If not, then it's simply your opinion Karla. Are we going by opinion or scripture?
quote:
They are supposed to be good stewards of the money that comes into the ministry.
OMG!!! PLEASE show me where they are NOT!
quote:
Clearly, it's all about them, ALL OF THEM, getting filthy rich.
No... What is is clear is you have an issue with pastors being rich no matter what or how they get there. How do you know the father did not leave them millions at death via life insurance?
Why do you feel the need to assert things that you are simply GUESSING at? How is that even Godly?
quote:
I also notice that nobody commented about Joel Osteen's comments on the Larry King Show a few years ago.
........... First. King met Osteen at a charity event. So, let's start there. how dare the big bad evil pastor attand and help raise money for a charity event.
Second, They never ask for money in their TV programs. It's paid for by the congregation.
Third, On Larry King, you are taking what was said out of context.
Here's the exchange, not just a clip:
KING: Do you share Billy's beliefs of life after death in a sense of going somewhere?
OSTEEN: I do. I do. We probably agree on 99 percent. I do. I believe there's a heaven you know. Afterwards, there's, you know, a place called hell. And I believe it's when we have a relationship with God and his son Jesus and that's what the Bible teaches us. I believe it.
STRAIGHT FROM THE TRANSCRIPT: (even though he already stated it)
KING: Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't.
OSTEEN: Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything ...
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
What's wrong with saying God is the judge, but for me I believe the Bible and Jesus?
4th.. If you are going to use this as reason to bash Osteen, then equally BASH Peter. The rock on which the church was built actually denied Christ 3 times.
5th, He addressed this once people were given half information:
quote:
It was never my desire or intention to leave any doubt as to what I believe and Whom I serve. I believe with all my heart that it is only through Christ that we have hope in eternal life. I regret and sincerely apologize that I was unclear on the very thing in which I have dedicated my life.
Jesus declared in John 14; I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me. I believe that Jesus Christ alone is the only way to salvation. However, it wasn’t until I had the opportunity to review the transcript of the interview that I realize I had not clearly stated that having a personal relationship with Jesus is the only way to heaven. It’s about the individual’s choice to follow Him.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 12:45 am to KCT
quote:
That's a lot different from a whole family becoming multi-millionaires.
Are they all multi-millionaires? Did they have other jobs? Where did the money come from?
quote:
Even if somebody thinks Osteen deserves to be a multi-millionaire, can somebody please tell me why the whole family deserves to be multi-millionaires?
A bother was a Surgeon. How much came from that? How much was left to them from their father?
Again, please stop looking at the surface. So what if they are millionaires. What does it matter.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:02 am to darkhorse
Youre a good guy, dark horse, but we will have to agree to disagree regarding Joel Osteen and his family. Yes, they are all mega-rich. They have used that ministry in order to become filthy rich, and it simply isn't right.
Obtw, have you ever watched him? He really doesn't even preach. He's really more of a motivational speaker. Hey, if he was making all this money by admitting to being Tony Robbins 2.0, I would be fine with that. The thing that's wrong is that he pretends to be a Christian minister who is interested in saving souls and preaching the Gospel. That's what makes him a fraud in my eyes.
I never said anything about a minister being poor. There is one televangelist who has taught me more about the Bible than anybody else. He's the real deal. He struggled financially when he was young, but now he makes over $200K a year. His wife makes about $90K. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.
But that's a far cry from what the Osteens are doing.
Don't know what else to say about it.
Obtw, have you ever watched him? He really doesn't even preach. He's really more of a motivational speaker. Hey, if he was making all this money by admitting to being Tony Robbins 2.0, I would be fine with that. The thing that's wrong is that he pretends to be a Christian minister who is interested in saving souls and preaching the Gospel. That's what makes him a fraud in my eyes.
I never said anything about a minister being poor. There is one televangelist who has taught me more about the Bible than anybody else. He's the real deal. He struggled financially when he was young, but now he makes over $200K a year. His wife makes about $90K. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.
But that's a far cry from what the Osteens are doing.
Don't know what else to say about it.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:08 am to Sentrius
quote:
Well then, what are they doing that they're not profiting ridiculously off of?
1- Joel Osteen Makes his money off of books. He does not advertise them on TV, He does not ask for money on TV. He is not a Prosperity preacher.
2- I have listed several things they do, including Osteen's giving personal money away...Larry King met Osteen at a charity event in fact.. According to King.
3- Feed the hungry locally
4- Feed the hungry world wide
5- Provide emergency assistance
6- free counselling
7- Shelter
8- clothing
9- transportation
10- help with prescriptions.
11- medical
12- send food to crisis areas along with child care help
13- back namonline.org
14- Humble area assistance
15- Katy Chriatian (We have Social Service Departments that offer emergency financial assistance, Food Pantries, a Crisis Center that houses the Domestic Abuse Center and the Sexual Assault Center) Horrible that this is part of what they do...
16- Child advocates...
And ALOT more. So gain. What's the problem here?
Posted on 3/13/14 at 1:24 am to KCT
quote:
Youre a good guy, dark horse,
Thank you.
quote:
but we will have to agree to disagree regarding Joel Osteen and his family.
I see that and understand your point of view.
quote:
Yes, they are all mega-rich. They have used that ministry in order to become filthy rich, and it simply isn't right.
Again Karla, you are not backing that up with anything other than opinion. Why belittle a man over something that you do not know for certain?
quote:
Obtw, have you ever watched him? He really doesn't even preach.
Yes. LOL, I agree.
quote:
He's really more of a motivational speaker.
And He says that himself.
quote:
The thing that's wrong is that he pretends to be a Christian minister who is interested in saving souls and preaching the Gospel. That's what makes him a fraud in my eyes.
This is where I have the issue. Define minister. The Bible is clear on this.
Explain to me why he would need to preach salvation only? What do we do with those babes in Christ?
Explain Eph 4:11? Jer 3:15? Rightly divide that with 1 Cor 12:4 and 28?
This isn't an argument. this is simply me saying that he is not wrong or at odds with scripture.
quote:
Don't know what else to say about it.
For me it isn't what I can say or you can say. For me it's what the Bible says.
There is nothing that I can see wrong in what he is doing. He has stated over and over that he believes Christ is the way. He gives freely of the money he makes (that comes in from book sales and investments). He gave up his salary from the church.
The church brings in 70 mil a year and is involved in mega(pun intended) outreaches that cover what the BIBLE says it should.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 5:29 am to KCT
quote:
The biggest thief is the one "pastoring" that church.
That is such a bizarre statement
Posted on 3/13/14 at 6:13 am to darkhorse
The mortgage on an old professional b'ball arena has to be up there in the stratosphere.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 6:31 am to KCT
quote:
That's a lot different from a whole family becoming multi-millionaires. Even if somebody thinks Osteen deserves to be a multi-millionaire, can somebody please tell me why the whole family deserves to be multi-millionaires?
Well. I'm not that interested in the whole thread but what does "deserve" have to do with this subject? If a person gets very wealthy and hands some of it to his family, NONE of them "deserve" it but the guy gets to choose what to do with his own money. He can keep it ALL himself, or pass it out.
If he decides to pass it out, then his family "deserves" it as much or more than anyone else he'd pass it out to.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 7:52 am to darkhorse
The assertion that a preacher is in the wrong for "preaching" the Gospel as a manner of profiting on the name Jesus is found in two places. The Book of Acts is the first, and the book of Phillipians is the other.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 7:56 am to Lakeboy7
quote:Damn right. We should all attempt to withhold as much as we can from the government.
All that beautiful tax free cash, hey that gives me an idea...
If only we could all start our own religions.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 8:00 am to NC_Tigah
Matthew 19:21
Joel Osteen's 10.5 million dollar mansion:
All you need to know.
quote:
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Joel Osteen's 10.5 million dollar mansion:
All you need to know.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 8:13 am to dpd901
quote:
Joel Osteen's 10.5 million dollar mansion:
He asked God for direction and god told him that he should only get the $10.5m one, not the $12m one that he originally was set to buy.
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