re: Joel Osteens church gets burglarized over night.

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Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect,

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So, are you demanding PERFECTION?

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All you need to know.

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Not sure what I needed to know. But, I have no issue with a man doing well while doing good. I have no reference point on how much "good" he is doing. But, the 'wealth hate' is disgusting and is NO DIFFERENT than the "pay their fair share" crowd's cry.

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. My issue is using what I consider a false image to obtain that wealth. Kind of the "do as I say, not as I do"

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1) I think the entirety of Christianity is "false image"

2) What is the evidence that Osteen is doing what you allege? So far, all I've seen is "he is phony...just look at that big house"

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You want to see a man who lives by what he preaches and truly cares, look at the new pope. That is a man I can respect

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I can respect the wealthy dude AND Mother Theresa. But, the Pope's house is more expensive than Osteen's


Look. I don't "knight" for either one. The wealthy pastor or the dude that takes on oath of poverty. I just despise the "look at that big house" bullshite.

We attended mega-church Fellowship Church for a bit. Always felt uneasy with the rock star attitude surrounding Ed Young, the pastor.

Then this WFAA investigative report showed just how much of a money grabbing liar he is.

We were done with that church before this reporter uncovered Ed's scandalous greed, but it reinforced that little voice in my head telling me that place was a half-step away from being in Jim Jones territory. Even after being exposed for having a private jet, and lavish condo and hiding it from the congregation, his followers, not Christ's followers, but Ed's groupies, defended him on blogs and Facebook and on his personal website. He and Osteen don't offer salvation. They offer cults of personality. They offer these tasty looking nuggets of wisdom but if you bite into it you discover there's nothing on the inside. It's all about the show.

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What is the evidence that Osteen is doing what you allege? So far, all I've seen is "he is phony...just look at that big house"

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Like it or not, he gets clumped in with all of the group that he associates himself with... Swaggert, Rizo, etc. Its just like being a cop, you naturally get a bad image because the 75% who are shitheads distort the image.

Him looking like a used car salesman, living in a 10m house, and having a "Mega" church goes to further the link towards the bad ones.

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But, the Pope's house is more expensive than Osteen's

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The new Pope didn't build that... He has refused the amenities that they have tried to push on him.

My respect isn't for the position of Pope, it is for this new man who is Pope. He is trying to change the image.

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Look, I'm an atheist, but Jesus' message was all about casting off earthly wealth, giving all you had to help those who had nothing.... The poor, the sick, those in prison, children. It was also about humility.

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One thing I don't get is that you need money to help all of those people. If we are just supposed to give all of our money to the poor and sick, then why earn money in the first place? Just be poor and don't work instead of working and being poor anyway because you give away your money to others.

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If we are just supposed to give all of our money to the poor and sick, then why earn money in the first place? Just be poor and don't work instead of working and being poor anyway because you give away your money to others.

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So instead of doing what you can do help, you should just be a leech?


I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the original premise that Jesus' message was to give all away. I'm just asking a question.

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Because I look at facts without bias.

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Dishonest with yourself.

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You never address things that clearly crash your argument and are dishonest in other respects.


Not at all. Just what you need to try and convince yourself of.

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More dishonesty.

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Really? Except when it's a church or a rich pastor. Don't forget the exclusion clause.

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When the pastor is getting rich off the charity of others...he's taking his rake. Pretty sleazy in the view of most people.

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no one should be getting rich


Unless they give you a portion.

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And more non-responsive dishonesty. You must be in televangelist school.

I don't have a problem with his Church taking in millions of dollars... However, if he is supposed to be a desciple of Christ, them he should live in a very modest house, dress modestly, preach that his followers should all do the same, and give all of that money to aiding the poor, sick, etc... Instead of living ostentatiously and telling his flock that Jesus wants them to be prosperous in earthly ways, nowhere does the New Testament say you will be rewarded in earthly treasure. That's the antithesis of Jesus' message.

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So instead of doing what you can do help, you should just be a leech?

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How is he being a "leech"

In my view, the VALUE of religion is in the good feeling it provides its adherents. The feeling of purpose and ease, comfort in times of distress, HOPE for the future, etc.

If Joel is providing that to his flock...not "leeching"

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How is he being a "leech"

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Who?

I was speaking in generalities. PTM said that if we are supposed to give all of our money away, then whats the point of working... My answer was that instead of working and trying to help others, everyone should just be a leech? Then who provides ANYTHING?