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re: Is there even a definition of "conservative" anymore? When did you start promoting it?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:17 am to imjustafatkid
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:17 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
Free trade is the ideal, but it cannot exist if other countries do not accept it.
This is not true and it's not conservative.
Milton Friedman spoke about the benefits of this in terms of free trade in the 70s (possibly even 60s), and this was clearly supported as the conservative view.
The liberal view is what you're arguing, and it even aligns with Leftist talking points (like, "I'd gladly pay 50 cents more for a burger if it means the worker gets a living wage!).
quote:
Gay marriage has always been allowed, it just hasn't been recognized by the government.
quote:
You're going to need to be more specific here.
look at spending 2016-2020
1
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It seems that Trump followers are post-moderning
Jesus Christ
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:18 am to Nosevens
quote:
Just look at the corruption in the media
if you required the Trump Presidency to understand the hypocrisy and partisanship of the media then you're just an idiot
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I may get time this afternoon to look at his actual record.
There is a much simpler way of determining how right wing any politician is. It is measured by the degree of hate you see coming from the press.
They hate DeSantis a LOT. Therefore, he is a conservative.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:19 am to Bourre
quote:
This is absolutely false. Trump talked all the time about the difficulty of dealing with regulations.
and then immediately enacted a bunch of economic and immigration regulations
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:19 am to SlowFlowPro
Mostly cultural conservatism and nationalism at this point, with some fiscal conservatism sprinkled in, just not as big business oriented.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Now with the GOP seeming to be splintering
Why? Because a dozen never-Trump RINOs got their tender fee-fees hurt that their main cheerleader was publicly rebuked by the rest of the party?
Because CNN said the sky is falling?
Because Adam Schiff has rushed to Cheney's defense, imploring on average Americans to fight back against "this assault on our democracy"?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This is not true and it's not conservative.
It is true, and it is conservative.
quote:
Milton Friedman spoke about the benefits of this in terms of free trade in the 70s (possibly even 60s), and this was clearly supported as the conservative view.
The liberal view is what you're arguing, and it even aligns with Leftist talking points (like, "I'd gladly pay 50 cents more for a burger if it means the worker gets a living wage!).
Yes, there are great benefits to free trade, but free trade is not a one way street and cannot be. The idea that we need to allow free and unfettered trade from us, but not demand it from others, is stupid. It isn't conservative or liberal, just stupid.
quote:
look at spending 2016-2020
No, you're going to need to specifically tell me how Trump is to blame for spending.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:23 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
immigration regulations
Are you an open border fig?
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and then immediately enacted a bunch of economic and immigration regulations
Immigration regulations? You're a real psycho if you think Trumps immigration policies aren't in keeping with conservative ideals.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:25 am to SlowFlowPro
I like how you deflected when I proved you wrong. Nice job
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
A belief in a transcendent order - tradition, divine revelation, or natural law;
An affection for the "variety and mystery" of human existence;
A conviction that society requires orders and classes that emphasize "natural" distinctions;
A belief that property and freedom are closely linked;
A faith in custom, convention, and prescription,
A recognition that innovation must be tied to existing traditions and customs, which entails a respect for the political value of prudence.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:26 am to SlowFlowPro
I've said it in posts going back prior to the 2016 election that Trump is really a 1960s democrat.
But democrats in the 1960s were much more America First oriented than either party today.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
But it kind of becomes irrelevant if Trump-fans are destroying language like Leftists, making "conservative" be whatever they want for that particular discussion.
bro you are wasting your time. when Thomas Massie stood up against the first covid stimluls and required a house vote, trump called him a traitor and a stain on congress and idiots on here with zero principles ate it up. Now the same idiots are pissed people are standing up against similar bills.
Spending was fricking great when trump was doing it, now that biden is doing the same it sucks arse.
Most of the so called conservatives on this board are not true conservatives and the waiver in the wind and are for whatever the so called leading voice stands for.
My views on most things lie almost entirely with Rand Paul and Thomas Massie and Ron Paul before except for a few key things.
One of those being Trumps foreign policy. Sorry but he was 100% and if nothing else this should be his lasting legacy. He is far and away the best president all time on foreign policy and its not close. I can not heap enough praise on him for this.
- Fair trade is not fair when other countries through the help of members of congress that are paid for are manipulating the market.
- I believe the conservative position is free trade based on fair and equal practices. For example, Cant have the government of the netherlands propping up their shipping companies to the tune of 60% and expect american companies to be able to compete. That is market manipulation. Something Trump in general did a great job of.
- does it cost tax payers money in the form of what essentially amounts to a tarriff or protectionism tax? Yes but in the end it has to be fair play
- trump was even better than reagen when it came to walking quitely but carrying a big stick. He didnt start any new wars and did waht he could to get more troops home while the MIC kicked and screamed the whole way
- he did an amazing job of calling out our so called Allies that are fleecing the american tax payers. This is a conservatice approach
- Got rid of nafta which in general was a good thing although against the basic principle of free trade
Trump did a lot of great things and lot of shitty things in the last year and although the trumpkins get on my fricking nerves with their lack of principles, he deserves credit for the good. His highs were higher than any president in my life time, his lows were only due to covid in general, and the crazy spending that came with it.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:28 am to imjustafatkid
Conservatism has become too married to libertarian ideals. They share opposition to statism. Little else.
Libertarians are libertines in the social/cultural arena.
Libertarians are libertines in the social/cultural arena.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:28 am to imjustafatkid
Immigration regulations are probably THE most important part of being a conservative. Trump was the first one I can remember to even mention this issue, which is why he generated so much buzz early in his first campaign. His execution wasn't perfect, but he should receive credit for normalizing support for a strong border.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:29 am to VoxDawg
quote:
Why? Because a dozen never-Trump RINOs got their tender fee-fees hurt that their main cheerleader was publicly rebuked by the rest of the party?
well you also had the first incumbent president lose since 1992 and the GOP lost the Senate in the same election
and that was just the beginning of the bad times
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Ok but this literally answers nothing. I'm asking for policies and their historical support, not generic platitudes
Trump supported re-working or avoiding trade deals detrimental to American workers and industry. Trump supported stronger enforcement of American immigration law. Trump supported a tougher stance on China, who has been abusing us economically and with respect to theft of intellectual property. Trump supported reworking a tax code that rewarded the wealthy and punished small business and the middle class.
It's not difficult. The schism between the Bush and Trump conservative simply boils down to nationalism versus globalism. The "free trade" supporters are not concerned about our nation's industrial sector vanishing, jobs vanishing overseas, small business being destroyed and small towns drying up because they are short term thinkers driven primarily by greed and numbers. The growing "populist" bases in both parties are watching significant portions of the country decay due largely in part to decades of this thinking.
I couldn't care less whether you call it conservative, populist, Trumpist or whatever else. It never would have grown to this level if there weren't real issues driving it.
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:31 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
It is true, and it is conservative.
you want other countries to subsidize domestic things. it's a double-win for your country. your prices are lower and your opponents have less public spending on important things like infrastructure, military, etc. that's conservatism on all sides
quote:
but free trade is not a one way street and cannot be. T
this is just a Trump talking point that makes no sense and lacks a full understanding of the issues
quote:
No, you're going to need to specifically tell me how Trump is to blame for spending.
He oversaw and approved the most massive spending increase in American history
Posted on 5/12/21 at 11:31 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
Yes, there are great benefits to free trade, but free trade is not a one way street and cannot be. The idea that we need to allow free and unfettered trade from us, but not demand it from others, is stupid. It isn't conservative or liberal, just stupid.
100%. Free trade must equal fair trade in a society that is as connected as we are now.
quote:
No, you're going to need to specifically tell me how Trump is to blame for spending
trump only really went crazy with the spending imo when covid hit. Wsant great before but he is also not in charge of the purse strings.
I will never understand why people blame the president for everything. Spending is a congressional thing. Only time the president should take the blame for that is if he demands more spending like Biden is doing now or like the trump covid stimulus. And even then trump, to his credit, had doubts and expressed them publically before giving into media pressure.
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