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re: Is the goal of the tariffs to negotiate free trade deals or is it to onshore jobs?
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:36 am to DavidTheGnome
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:36 am to DavidTheGnome
You do realize both can be true, right?
1
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:37 am to Arkaea79
quote:
You do realize both can be true, right?
I mean the mechanics of economics says otherwise but okay
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:40 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
I mean the mechanics of economics says otherwise but okay
quote:
How Free Trade Can Boost Domestic Production:
Access to Cheaper Inputs: Free trade allows producers to import raw materials, machinery, and components at lower costs, which can reduce production costs and boost output.
Larger Markets: With fewer barriers, domestic producers can sell goods internationally, increasing demand and encouraging more production.
Increased Competition: Competition can push domestic firms to become more efficient and innovate, which may lead to higher-quality products and more output.
Now I don’t think we will just have unfettered free trade.
But you focus on the things you have a competitive advantage at.
This post was edited on 4/10/25 at 8:44 am
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:40 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
They aren’t mutually exclusive. If the trade playing field gets leveled the cost parity for manufacturing can be closer to even than the current very lopsided model.
Do you honestly think that removing a 5 to 10% tariff is going to eliminate the advantage in labor costs for a country like vietnam? Especially if it means that they now get to sell their goods to us consumers at lower prices?
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:42 am to DavidTheGnome
Both! Both things can be true at the same time when looked at objectively and without a cynical perspective.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:43 am to dgnx6
quote:
Access to Cheaper Inputs: Free trade allows producers to import raw materials, machinery, and components at lower costs, which can reduce production costs and boost output.
This comment speaks in the absolute, but ignores the way y'all have described it, which is the us having no or low tariffs. In your paradigm there is no advantage because we are already not taxing the import of these raw materials and components
quote:
Larger Markets: With fewer barriers, domestic producers can sell goods internationally, increasing demand and encouraging more production.
Due to the dollar being so valuable and our exports being naturally expensive (due to being from an advanced economy), this is not a likely outcome when we're dealing with poor countries like Vietnam, cambodia, Bangladesh etc
quote:
Increased Competition: Competition can push domestic firms to become more efficient and innovate, which may lead to higher-quality products and more output.
Typically the argument is domestic firms look for these efficiencies in a tariff environment to be creative to get around them or to make goods that are still so valuable the tariffs don't impact them
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:43 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Based on what data relative to the world ?
Debt, and the fact that we owe a huge chunk of it to external lenders, and the fact that we're now printing money on an intermittent basis and running even bigger budget and trade deficits and our interest expense is quickly becoming unaffordable. Not to mention we've lost our competitive advantage in manufacturing relative to the world, which is a sign of decline to all but the most credulous.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:46 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Do you honestly think that removing a 5 to 10% tariff is going to eliminate the advantage in labor costs for a country like vietnam? Especially if it means that they now get to sell their goods to us consumers at lower prices?
I think Vietnam is t the issue. Chyna is. I also think a 5-10% reduction in their advantage here, a 10% reductions there, and pretty soon the gap is narrow enough.
Look at the cost delta between shoes made in Vietnam and those made in the US. A 20% - 30% narrowing of the costs and it’s a much easier choice.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:53 am to CollegeFBRules
quote:
they all get to claim they were correct
And this is what's really important to the TDS retards. You'd rather Trump supporters be wrong than actually improve the country.
The thought that 2 things that benefit America could be true is just too much information for your little brains to process.
This is about the 20th time this question has been asked and answered in 24 hours which just highlights the desperation.
These little word games you pathetically try to play to win on the internet while losing in real life aren't fooling anyone.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 8:56 am to wdhalgren
quote:
Debt, and the fact that we owe a huge chunk of it to external lenders, and the fact that we're now printing money on an intermittent basis and running even bigger budget and trade deficits and our interest expense is quickly becoming unaffordable. Not to mention we've lost our competitive advantage in manufacturing relative to the world, which is a sign of decline to all but the most credulous
All of which Trump plans to correct. Your describing the problem, Trump is executing the solution. All the promises he made on his campaign trail. Catch up man.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:00 am to wdhalgren
quote:
Debt, and the fact that we owe a huge chunk of it to external lenders, and the fact that we're now printing money on an intermittent basis and running even bigger budget and trade deficits and our interest expense is quickly becoming unaffordable.
What does that have to do with tariffs or free trade?
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:04 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
All of which Trump plans to correct. Your describing the problem, Trump is executing the solution.
I'm giving Trump the benefit of the doubt, for now. He's ostensibly trying to cut costs and fighting an entrenched establishment to do so. His tariffs are a blunt instrument, but better than doing nothing about trade. Can he stay the course and be successful? I hope he does even though it will be painful and will hurt me personally. It will hurt just about everyone personally, and that's a concern because we have a lot of people who can't accept or understand the concept of necessary sacrifice to fix our problems.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:05 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:The "goal" is to reset the entire trade paradigm
Is the goal of the tariffs to negotiate free trade deals or is it to onshore jobs?
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:06 am to NC_Tigah
We are going to win.
Everyone against freedom is going to lose.
Everyone against freedom is going to lose.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:08 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
If “Buy American” was 15% more than Chinese rather than 80% more American manufacturers can compete. That means more manufacturing here instead of there.
It also means we're paying higher prices.
If we want to subsidize an industry because there are benefits, fine, but we've got to recognize that it comes with a cost.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:15 am to DavidTheGnome
Free trade means our manufacturing is more competitive because our products aren’t being subjected to tariffs abroad. So, it’s both.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:16 am to wdhalgren
quote:
Debt, and the fact that we owe a huge chunk of it to external lenders, and the fact that we're now printing money on an intermittent basis and running even bigger budget and trade deficits and our interest expense is quickly becoming unaffordable.
You're conflating public debt with the trade deficit
Our public debt is a problem. The trade deficit has minimal impact on it. Federal spending is the fix for that.
quote:
Not to mention we've lost our competitive advantage in manufacturing relative to the world
We have the best manufacturing in the world when you compare total output with per capita output.
We are #2 in total output
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:19 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
What does that have to do with tariffs or free trade?
Did you read the part where I said that we owe a gargantuan debt to external lenders? Do you understand that they hold that much US debt, among other US assets, because of our large trade deficits? We run a deficit by sending them dollars. Rather than debase the dollar, which would happen if the sent the excess dollars back home via foreign exchange markets, the lend them back to us. In other words, we run a large trade deficit by borrowing from our trade partners. And also by selling them chunks of our corporations via equity markets. Or by selling them US real estate.
If you finance your unaffordable lifestyle by borrowing from your vendors and selling off your belongings, is that a sign of wealth? If a country borrows from its trading partners to finance consumption and starts printing money to manage the debt load, do you believe the trade partners will be okay with that forever? Could all of America just retire, print money and send it to the rest of the world to support us in the manner to which we've grown accustomed?
The answers to those silly questions are, of course, no.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:26 am to DavidTheGnome
Free trade would lead to more jobs and higher wages.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:28 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Because those two things are mutually exclusive.
No, they are not.
We're not going to make sneakers in the US to quote Marc Rowan.
Higher value with less labor products? Yes.
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