re: Is education in this country really all that bad?

quote:

---

The insult would be to pretend that the additional hurdles they or their forebears had to climb didnt exist.

---

what does this history lesson have to do with the toxic culture that has developed after the civil rights era?

the nuclear family survived Jim Crow intact. unwed pregnancy didn't skyrocket until a couple decades after the Civil Rights Era

quote:

---

Around here the designation GT has been eliminated. Lib parents were whining that ALL kids are 'gifted and talented.'

---

I hear ya. The first time I got an inkling of my tracking into GT was 8th grade science with Mr. Whip (his real name). On the first day he said "There are classes for cars. There are classes for airplanes. You are in the class for Rocket Ships."

quote:

---

I figured you would have to pivot since your initial premise was absolutely and unequivocally absurd.

---

i didn't pivot

if all poor people in America had the cultural values of black Americans living under Jim Crow, then we'd have fewer poor people and a much smaller underclass in 2017

quote:

---

To answer your "question" I think we are going to need some data to back up your platitudes.

---

quote:

---

Please explain how that graph supports your point that it is white and Asian culture which is the result of their generally higher economic standing as a demographic group in the United States as compared to (I presume blacks and Mexicans based on the OP?)

---

i thought you were asking me for data on my comments about black Americans during and after Jim Crow (you weren't specific)

some graphs about cultural values





Data on homework hours/week by race



and the graph above works

these groups have different cultural values and it reflects on socio-economic standing. asians excel b/c they work harder, avoid unwed pregnancy/criminality

this leads to higher economic standing

quote:

---

I'll add one thing. Tenure should be banned. If a bright young teacher wants to compete for the job of a lazy old coot then let the market rule

---

In Louisiana tenure is no more. It's based on teacher performance on their SLT student learning target and observations.

quote:

---

You seem to believe that there is zero attribution of our country's racial history and the economic standing of blacks.

---

i would be much more inclined to support this if their cultural data points did not fall off a cliff AFTER the Civil Rights legislation

also, the fact that poor whites and latinos (who faced no such discrimination) are also held back by the exact same datapoints hurts this argument (and they are following the trend of black people post-CRA to reinforce the fact that cultural choices affect economic standing)

i'll put it in a way that you understand. since criminal convictions and having children before marriage negatively affect economic standing, why are we seeing the same patterns across all underclasses who exhibit this behaviors? either you have to claim white people were oppressed the same as black people (which is absurd and negates the terribleness that was Jim Crow) or it's not related to prior oppression

quote:

---

I'm Louisiana tenure is no more. It's based on teacher performance on their SLT student learning target and observations.

---

I've heard about that. Wasn't it a Bobby Jindal initiative? If true, he should get credit for that.

quote:

---

I mean..do I really need to explain to you that people that are born poor are more likely to end up poor than middle class people?

---

because they are taught how to be poor by people who don't know any differently

i'm not saying this is a good thing. the entire point of making this a discussion about culture is that we can change culture if we want to. i mean we, as a society, have been doing it but piecemeal instead of as an overarching topic. we've spent tens of billions of dollars (over about 5 decades now) trying to educate poor people about the value of education and the pitfalls of unwed pregnancy and a criminal record. we speak about each of these issues individually, however, which is inefficient and (obviously) ineffective

what we have to do is tie them all together into a single, cultural system and say "if you don't want to be poor, you have to adopt a different culture". this policy works EVEN if we fully accept your commentary on oppression. now this won't close the gap in a generation, but each successive generation will likely have a shot at one, maybe 2, stations higher.

and for the record, asians had their own Jim Crow-type laws out West. they still dominate

and they're still discriminated against today

quote:

---

western european countries don't have to deal with that underclass

---

But they're importing them as fast as they can.

I live in Germany and my wife teaches in a German school here is the difference. People who go to college here are worth their salt. They do not allow kids that do not belong in college to be there. They separate kids into educational ability so smart kids are not held back and not so smart kids are left behind. Half of the students on campus in the states should not be there and should be thought a useful job skill. Oh and Universities do not have as many BS degrees as we do like gender studies or liberal arts.