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re: Is education in this country really all that bad?
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:01 pm to PrimeTime Money
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:01 pm to PrimeTime Money
What level of education?
I work closely with the local school board here (preK thru 12) and because of federal rules, the school system classifies as a B district.
Reason: feds mandate public schools have to include special ed ACT scores combined.
Not to take away from your question, but I wonder how many instances like this play out all the time across the country.
I work closely with the local school board here (preK thru 12) and because of federal rules, the school system classifies as a B district.
Reason: feds mandate public schools have to include special ed ACT scores combined.
Not to take away from your question, but I wonder how many instances like this play out all the time across the country.
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Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:05 pm to PrimeTime Money
Yes! There is a myriad of reasons why this is the case and you can't point to just one 'initiative' or cause. One of my favorite recent examples of dumbing down is so -called 'blended' classrooms. In high schools around here (and I understand it's happening in elementary and middle school as well) students of 'mixed readiness levels' are put in the same classroom and have the same curriculum. For example, honors students and 'on-level' students all take Science or English, there is no differentiation any more, no program for gifted students. The net result is that the honors students get bored out of their minds and, often times, end up having to 'tutor' their less advanced peers during class time. Understandably, this doesn't advance the interests of the honors students.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:07 pm to ljhog
As a teacher one of my favorite sayings is " you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shite" and in many cases the school board or state wants us to do just that by taking an all black school or any bad school for that matter with and F rating and getting them to an A rating.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:12 pm to conservativewifeymom
Both of my kids are in the gifted program that their respective schools, and they do have "blended" classrooms for certain periods on certain days of the week. Neither are bored, and the older is challenged almost past his limit this year.
The theory behind it is it brings up the underachieving students, rather than bringing down the high achieving kids. I haven't seen it be a detriment to my kids as of yet. I'd imagine if they went to it full time, there may be some, but right now it's only a couple of hours, a couple days a week.
The theory behind it is it brings up the underachieving students, rather than bringing down the high achieving kids. I haven't seen it be a detriment to my kids as of yet. I'd imagine if they went to it full time, there may be some, but right now it's only a couple of hours, a couple days a week.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:12 pm to conservativewifeymom
quote:
Yes! There is a myriad of reasons why this is the case and you can't point to just one 'initiative' or cause. One of my favorite recent examples of dumbing down is so -called 'blended' classrooms. In high schools around here (and I understand it's happening in elementary and middle school as well) students of 'mixed readiness levels' are put in the same classroom and have the same curriculum. For example, honors students and 'on-level' students all take Science or English, there is no differentiation any more, no program for gifted students. The net result is that the honors students get bored out of their minds and, often times, end up having to 'tutor' their less advanced peers during class time. Understandably, this doesn't advance the interests of the honors students.
This is happening at all levels and it is up to the teacher to teach the honor student and special ed student at the same time and its a joke.
Our school district has been dealing with a civil rights case for decades and now the lawyers are saying that because most special ed students are black, that they are not getting a fair chance at the same education as the smart white students who are not in special ed. As a result we have blended classrooms and its a failure to the students, teachers, and parents. You cannot teach a class with regular education students when you have a special ed student who shouts obscenities out at any given moment and is constantly disrupting class because he should be self contained.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:19 pm to WHS
I definitely hear you! My SIL is a 5th grade teacher with 25 kids in her class. Just recently she had 3 kids from migrant worker families who were dumped in her classroom. They do not speak English and they are, at best, at a 2nd grade level in all areas. There is absolutely no way she can address everyone's needs. Let alone teach much that is meaningful! The smart kids waste their time and talent while teachers try to find ways to survive in these classrooms. I just don't see where we can go from here with these types of situations happening every day and just about everywhere.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:22 pm to Zach
quote:
K-12 education in the USA is pretty bad unless you live in an ISD. Beyond demographics there is a socialist model in teacher pay. For example, let's say you are a white guy who graduated from Alexandria Sr. HS. The best teacher you ever had and the worst teacher you ever had made the same salary. So, there is no incentive for talented people to work there.
OTOH, our colleges are the best in the world because they are a free market model. The best physics prof at LSU makes a lot more than the best Eng lit prof at LSU. It's because of supply and demand. Great physics profs are much harder to find and retain than Eng teachers.
I'm in a thread and agreeing with everything Zach has to say. It's bizarro world.
I'll add one thing. Teachers should be paid a ton more than they are but it should also be one of the hardest degrees to get. Right now you have the opposite and people looking for an easy degree go into education.
Had a friend who was a elem ed major while I was pounding my head in finishing up my bio/chem degree. The "schoolwork" he had to do for his degree was a complete joke.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:24 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
So are you intentionally ignoring the correlation between performance and economic standing to score points with the board's usual suspects or do you just need educating?
i don't really find it shocking that a culture that leads to higher economic standing will also lead to better educational success
in fact, valuing education is a big part of the reason for economic success
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:25 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
a culture that leads to higher economic standing
So I guess being one generation removed from being considered sub-human under the law is not a factor. Its "culture" only...Nice revisionism...I could see why you would want to believe that.
This post was edited on 1/17/17 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:27 pm to Haughton99
An education degree is pretty much a degree of last resort these days. A relative just finished teaching the Intro to the Teaching Profession course at a FL university. One of the students failed to capitalize even one letter at the beginning of a sentence in an entire paper she had to write. And she wants to be a teacher! 
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:33 pm to PrimeTime Money
No. The only ones who think so are people pushing for more money to pay teachers.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:36 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Here's the study I'm talking about. It's pretty fascinating(at least I thought so.)
Thanks. It's a very long read and I would certainly reserve time in the morning to do so. One problem. It's Brookings. They've been putting out left wing false data for 50 years. It's like going to The Sierra Club for environmental studies.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:37 pm to PrimeTime Money
There are some really great schools and school districts in this country, and some terrible ones.
Generally, the better ones tend to be in surburban areas that pay more, ares there the school district is decentralized, and where the unions are weaker.
Generally, the better ones tend to be in surburban areas that pay more, ares there the school district is decentralized, and where the unions are weaker.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:37 pm to RogerTheShrubber
An ISD is the name EVERY school district in Texas uses whether they are wealthy or poor or everywhere in between. Some are huge like Houston ISD and many are in small towns and are very poor. ISD is just a Texas name and it means exactly nothing since every school district is ISD even the countywide districts and huge urban districts.
Every school district in Louisiana is an "independent "school district. Some are like Zachary and Monroe and Bogalusa and use city limits as boundaries. Others use parish lines as boundaries.
Every school district in Louisiana is an "independent "school district. Some are like Zachary and Monroe and Bogalusa and use city limits as boundaries. Others use parish lines as boundaries.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:38 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
So I guess being one generation removed from being considered sub-human under the law is not a factor.
it would if every black person had problems "getting out"
relying on this lazy fallback is a complete insult to every black person who busted arse and did the right things to get out
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:38 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
My only point was that maybe there isn't anything we can do to make the schools better that would help. Maybe it's just on the students.
The one thing you could do is make teaching a more attractive profession to talented people. It won't make black students score higher than whites but it will improve learning for ALL races and economic backgrounds.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:41 pm to Loserman
quote:
Graduate High School
Don't have children out of wedlock
Get a Job
Add don't get arrested to the list.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:42 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Both of my kids are in the gifted program that their respective schools, and they do have "blended" classrooms for certain periods on certain days of the week.
What you are describing is 'tracking'. I was GT. I was not forced to take general classes but I had to for scheduling purposes. I was not surprised at how stupid general students were. I knew that. I was shocked at how stupid the teachers were. GTs get the smartest teachers for a reason. If the student knows more about the subject than the teacher it can be a classroom disaster.
Did the general kids get any 'uplifting' from my presence in World History? I doubt it.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:43 pm to SlowFlowPro
No. The insult would be to pretend that the additional hurdles they or their forebears had to climb didnt exist.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 3:45 pm to Zach
Around here the designation GT has been eliminated. Lib parents were whining that ALL kids are 'gifted and talented.' 
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