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re: I'm interested in the opinions of fellow conservatives on the Chauvin jury findings
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:34 pm to Tigerpride18
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:34 pm to Tigerpride18
Its ok to admit the cops fricked up and still be a conservative.
It's a little uncomfortable lol,I wont lie, but it just wasnt right. Everyone knows it deep down.
It doesnt mean you think he was treated differently because he was black. It doesnt mean you dont support the police. It doesnt mean that by admitting chauvin was wrong,that you are a BLM supporter.
It just means the cop made a big mistake and had the biggest effect on Floyd's death
It's a little uncomfortable lol,I wont lie, but it just wasnt right. Everyone knows it deep down.
It doesnt mean you think he was treated differently because he was black. It doesnt mean you dont support the police. It doesnt mean that by admitting chauvin was wrong,that you are a BLM supporter.
It just means the cop made a big mistake and had the biggest effect on Floyd's death
1
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:34 pm to Tigerpride18
quote:
Fentanyl is irrelevant if it wasnt the autopsied cause of death.
the fatal OD mythology lives strong despite all evidence proving otherwise
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:35 pm to AMS
I understand your perspective, but for me collective that provides doubt ... not 100% sure if it is reasonable or not. :)
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:38 pm to AMS
I'm gonna take off lol...I'm a staunch trump supporter, but even I dont feel like I fit in around here.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:39 pm to L.A.
He was convicted for kneeling on him and kind of smirking. Had he not kneeled on him and tried his best to help Chauvin I don't know if he would have survived his drugs anyway.
However, in this day and age and in the climate of this country, with everyone taking videos, etc... being on him with a knee seemingly completely ignoring him is what cost Chauvin. You just have to be much more aware.
Truth is damn near every black person getting arrested can now say "I can't breathe" and the stage is set for some time of settlement. Cops been hearing shite like this from people of all races for 100 years. Floyd being obese, on drugs, etc... is nothing but backstory and inconsequential in today's USA.
However, in this day and age and in the climate of this country, with everyone taking videos, etc... being on him with a knee seemingly completely ignoring him is what cost Chauvin. You just have to be much more aware.
Truth is damn near every black person getting arrested can now say "I can't breathe" and the stage is set for some time of settlement. Cops been hearing shite like this from people of all races for 100 years. Floyd being obese, on drugs, etc... is nothing but backstory and inconsequential in today's USA.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:40 pm to Tigerpride18
quote:
I'm gonna take off lol...I'm a staunch trump supporter, but even I dont feel like I fit in around here.
Why? Given the responses, I seem like the outlier.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:41 pm to L.A.
Morally committed manslaughter. Very likely committed murder 2 by Minnesota statute.
Don’t think state proved their case beyond reasonable doubt, was a show trial, not moving trial or sequestering jury made it a farce.
Don’t think state proved their case beyond reasonable doubt, was a show trial, not moving trial or sequestering jury made it a farce.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:42 pm to JPinLondon
quote:
So I'm not a lawyer, and I will screw this explanation up, but I know some lawyers, and I was informed of the "eggshell skull" concept a couple years back.
You take a "victim" as they are. Thus if someone has a blood clotting issue and you slap them in the face and cause a nosebleed and they die... your "simple assault" charge CAN/WILL be taken higher to a manslaughter or similar charge!
In that scenario, the slap caused the nosebleed. You still have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt.
So, did the knee in the back kill him? Do you have no reasonable doubt that it did?
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:42 pm to L.A.
I think exactly like you do. Glad to see I'm not the only one. But the courts are there by our consent, we agree to abide by them, and he's now guilty of those charges. So while it sucks to be him, being an adult, I don't think it's anything we should burn down the Foot Locker over.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:43 pm to moneyg
Minnesota statute doesn’t need the knee to the back to cause death for murder 2.
Continuing to knee was assault 3 which is a felony.
Floyd died during commission of a felony, ergo murder 2.
Continuing to knee was assault 3 which is a felony.
Floyd died during commission of a felony, ergo murder 2.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:48 pm to L.A.
quote:
IMO Chauvin didn't kill George Floyd (the fentanyl probably did that)
quote:
A person who causes the death of another
All I need to know therefore NOT GUILTY
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:48 pm to AMS
quote:
his fentanyl level were very survivable.
Survivable is an interesting word. His fentanyl blood levels were higher than the average fentanyl overdose death.
I don’t believe he overdosed. But there’s no point in downplaying what the level was.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:51 pm to AMS
quote:
evidence proved DC caused GF's death
Keep your lunacy on the OT please
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:54 pm to L.A.
The video just made it appear he was so indifferent.
I honestly don’t think it was manslaughter. George Floyd was a ticking time bomb without all of the drugs.
I honestly don’t think it was manslaughter. George Floyd was a ticking time bomb without all of the drugs.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:56 pm to L.A.
The biggest issue I had was causation, and this would be an issue on all counts. I did a little looking at lunch and saw that Chauvin's actions had to be a "substantial factor" but necessarily the only factor leading to Floyd's death. With this definition, I can see finding that the officer's actions were a substantial factor.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:59 pm to L.A.
Murder 3 in Minnesota isn’t what we would call Murder in a lot of other states.
I always said manslaughter was the right charge, but Murder 3 doesn’t require intent.
I always said manslaughter was the right charge, but Murder 3 doesn’t require intent.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 2:00 pm to L.A.
I will preface this with saying that I am one of the biggest advocates for LEO on this board and Speedy will vouch for me.
Chauvin had a couple of significant facts that made his case extremely difficult.
1) GF was in handcuffs and already cleared of all weapons. Although he may have exhibited passive resistance , he could not actively resist. The level of reasonable force that can be used upon a secured suspect/arestee is much lower than Simone not in cuffs and has not been cleared of weapons.
2) All of this occurred next to a police unit and involved multiple officers. If this had occurred without the availability of other officers to assist or police unit to secure GF, I think he would have been given more benefit of the doubt.
3) Chauvin didn’t help himself with his testimony. He made mistakes with a couple of word choices.
4) Chauvin’s history hurt him
5) The ability to play a video and audio of GF stating “I can’t breathe” is powerful and resonates with jurors, regardless of drug screens and coroners tests. Juries are fickle and subject to human emotion. Watching an immobilized man state “I can’t breathe” and then expire is difficult to explain away.
I aware of two death in custody cases in BR. One was caught on both audio and video. The difference is that BRPD carried the handcuffed arrestee to the unit as he passively resisted and placed him in the unit. The arrestee expired later and autopsy showed substances in his body , but there was not force used post handcuffing. (The pre handcuff force was limited to two taser impulses ).
Chauvin had a couple of significant facts that made his case extremely difficult.
1) GF was in handcuffs and already cleared of all weapons. Although he may have exhibited passive resistance , he could not actively resist. The level of reasonable force that can be used upon a secured suspect/arestee is much lower than Simone not in cuffs and has not been cleared of weapons.
2) All of this occurred next to a police unit and involved multiple officers. If this had occurred without the availability of other officers to assist or police unit to secure GF, I think he would have been given more benefit of the doubt.
3) Chauvin didn’t help himself with his testimony. He made mistakes with a couple of word choices.
4) Chauvin’s history hurt him
5) The ability to play a video and audio of GF stating “I can’t breathe” is powerful and resonates with jurors, regardless of drug screens and coroners tests. Juries are fickle and subject to human emotion. Watching an immobilized man state “I can’t breathe” and then expire is difficult to explain away.
I aware of two death in custody cases in BR. One was caught on both audio and video. The difference is that BRPD carried the handcuffed arrestee to the unit as he passively resisted and placed him in the unit. The arrestee expired later and autopsy showed substances in his body , but there was not force used post handcuffing. (The pre handcuff force was limited to two taser impulses ).
Posted on 4/21/21 at 2:02 pm to HL
quote:
let me knee on your neck with you hand cuff in the prone position and let’s see what happens
Why don't you swallow the amount of drugs that Scumbag George swallowed and lets see what happens.
You can prove to us all the it wasn't the drugs.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 2:13 pm to AMS
quote:I believe you are mistaken there. As I read the Minnesota manslaughter statute, Chauvin didn't need to have cause Floyd's death to be guilty of manslaughter. He need only have created an environment that led to his death. I read something in the statue about "wanton disregard for life."
ETA if the OP even conceded that manslaughter is appropriate he is acknowledging DC caused GF's death. the only thing different for murder 2 would be showing DC had intent to attempt or commit a felony. the excessive use of force with the knee for too long would qualify as the felony. the only way he wasn't guilty of murder 2 is if the knee was an accident.
I don't know if Chauvin caused Floyd's death or not. That's reasonable doubt on the murder charge. I feel certain that he had wanton disregard for Floyd's life, and that disregard contributed to Floyd's death. Ergo, manslaughter.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 2:16 pm to L.A.
quote:
IMO Chauvin didn't kill George Floyd (the fentanyl probably did that), but he showed an utter disregard for Floyd's life by not getting him medical attention and by keeping his knee on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes while Floyd had his hands cuffed behind his back an was laid out on the ground.
I’ve learned to tune out people who parrot this incorrect media narrative
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