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re: If you believe your rights come from God then you are a Christian Nationalist
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:57 am to VOR
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:57 am to VOR
quote:
Christian nationalism is the belief and desire that the government should by policy and law
Impose its view of Christianity on
The citizens, and that’s fricked up.
It’s anti-freedom.
This is straight up bullshite
2
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:06 pm to FredBear
I’m saying that’s what is meant by the term in its negative connotation.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:12 pm to StrongOffer
quote:
So morality has to be objective.
If you believe its inherent from a higher power then yes. But if you dont then its relative to whatever a society, culture religion etc.. agrees is moral or immoral.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:20 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
quote:
believe that your rights come from God
quote:I'm with the founding fathers no matter what label they put on me.
our own founding documents make this proclamation,
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:23 pm to FredBear
quote:
This is straight up bullshite
Yes and no really. Not everyone that considers themselves a christian nationalist wants to see their beliefs imposed on others. There is however a reconstituted movement that has been gaining traction in Christian conservative circles that looks to seeks to influence in family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government. How that influence intersects with policy and law is one that we will see play out in the coming years. One could argue the recent Alabama Supreme Court decision is one such example. Many supporters of this decision certainly see it as victory for bibilcal principals.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:29 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
quote:
Somehow they seem to not mention that our own founding documents make this proclamation, as have most Americans throughout our history.
Exactly. So, the founding father's were "Christian Nationalists" then.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:29 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
Tells us 2 things:
1. These idiots are co trolled by emotion. When they get worked, they'll say anything that pops into their heads
2. They have little to no knowledge of the ideas this nation was founded upon or what important documents say
1. These idiots are co trolled by emotion. When they get worked, they'll say anything that pops into their heads
2. They have little to no knowledge of the ideas this nation was founded upon or what important documents say
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:31 pm to StrongOffer
quote:Call it what you want but I get my morality from the same place the founding fathers got theirs, the Holy Bible. I won't be calling you names. You are free to think of it however you would like. Our laws have been weakened on this matter but that is still telling us what is wrong. Everything else is o.k. I think this all amounts to not being very subjective. ... but I don't care which label is placed on this. objective or subjective labels have no impact on the outcome.
You say X is moral. I say X is immoral. If morality is subjective,
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:32 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
Christians believe their god created everything, why would rights be excluded from "everything"?
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:39 pm to Don Quixote
Fine by me, then I am Christian nationalist and you have been warned: FAFO
Ditto
Ditto
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:39 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
quote:Wrong. That's not what she said.
If you believe your rights come from God then you are a Christian Nationalist
Wade Miller, the person quoted in the OP, makes a mistake in what the MSNBC guest is saying:
quote:He misunderstands what she is saying.
She says that if you believe that your rights come from God, you aren’t a Christian, you are a Christian nationalist.
Somehow they seem to not mention that our own founding documents make this proclamation, as have most Americans throughout our history.
She is not saying you are a Christian nationalist if you believe God is the source of your rights. To the contrary, she is saying you are a Christian Nationalist if you believe God is the "sole" source of and sets all of the parameters of your rights.
She is saying that a Christian Nationalist is someone who would disregard the applicable constitutions, supreme courts, and legislatures.
One could say that she defines "Christian Nationalist" in a similar way to what one might call a "Sovereign Citizen," that the Constitution, Supreme Court, and Congress do not apply to them.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:39 pm to VOR
quote:Are you ignorant, stupid or both? I would have to write a small book here to show you where you are wrong. You still probably wouldn't get it.
VOR
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:54 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:You can't make a moral argument if it's all subjective/relative. That's the point. If someone says incest is moral, there is no logical argument that they are wrong, because they are being moral according to their individual sense of morality.
If you believe its inherent from a higher power then yes. But if you dont then its relative to whatever a society, culture religion etc.. agrees is moral or immoral.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:56 pm to Redbone
quote:I also get mt morality from the same place. Not sure how you read my post and thought I was arguing for subjective morality.
Call it what you want but I get my morality from the same place the founding fathers got theirs, the Holy Bible. I won't be calling you names. You are free to think of it however you would like. Our laws have been weakened on this matter but that is still telling us what is wrong. Everything else is o.k. I think this all amounts to not being very subjective. ... but I don't care which label is placed on this. objective or subjective labels have no impact on the outcome.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 12:57 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
Wow. The “Christian nationalist” oppressors claim to be the victims. This isn’t new.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 1:09 pm to StrongOffer
quote:
You can't make a moral argument if it's all subjective/relative. That's the point. If someone says incest is moral, there is no logical argument that they are wrong, because they are being moral according to their individual sense of morality.
I would agree. Morals are not based on logic. There is no algorithm for moral reasoning. They are subjective.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 2/23/24 at 1:14 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:Even atheist scholars would laugh at this statement.
I would agree. Morals are not based on logic.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 1:21 pm to StrongOffer
quote:
Even atheist scholars would laugh at this statement.
Nice appeal to authority
All systems of logic, that I'm aware of, have a concept of proof and a way of verifying with high degree of certainty whether an argument constitutes a proof. As long as the logic is consistent (and we have good reason to think that many of them are), once we verify a proof we can accept its conclusion without worrying that there may be another proof that makes the opposite conclusion. With morality though, we have no such method, and people all the time make moral arguments that can be reversed or called into question by other moral arguments
Posted on 2/23/24 at 1:24 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
quote:
If you believe your rights come from God then you are a Christian Nationalist
It quite literally says this in our founding documents…problem is the left has disdain for our founding documents!
Posted on 2/23/24 at 1:26 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
Yes and no really. Not everyone that considers themselves a christian nationalist wants to see their beliefs imposed on others.
This is a gross oversimplification. Or to be less combative, you're making a digital issue out of one that's inherently analog. Everybody (sans anarchists) wants SOME of their morality enforced via a central governing body. Atheists, theists, Jainists, Hindus; everybody.
Almost nobody wants ALL of their morality enforced via a central governing authority. Outside of a few Jim Jones types that's a fictional boogyman.
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