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Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:09 am to Lynxrufus2012
quote:
They hate this country and the founding fathers and they hate our Creator.
It’s truly ironic that, if they lived in any country outside of Canada, Europe, or Australia, they wouldn’t have the freedom to come up with this word salad or a pot to piss in.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:13 am to VOR
quote:
Christian nationalism is the belief and desire that the government should by policy and law Impose its view of Christianity on The citizens, and that’s fricked up. It’s anti-freedom.
so in the context of this thread and the OP, is the belief that one's rights come from God equivalent with being a Christian nationalist (as you have defined it)
in fact, let's take it further...who do you consider to be a Christian Nationalist, and what beliefs and desires are they imposing on the citizens based solely on their Christian beliefs?
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 11:16 am
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:14 am to Lynxrufus2012
quote:
Locke, Newton, and others of the enlightenment are now Christian Nationalists!
Well said.
It also highlights how the modern left has completely abandoned any claim to the title of classical liberalism.
They are tyrannical leftists who don’t believe humans have intrinsic rights beyond what the government deigns to allow them to have and even those are subject to change.
I would point out that this perspective is entirely contradictory to any sort of belief in our constitution whether they even fully realize it themselves or not.
They are by all objective measures post American.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 11:15 am
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:14 am to ThuperThumpin
quote:
So where does an atheist believe these inherent rights come from? If they are subjective then they arent inherent.
You’ve heard of the term “human rights”? Thats the same thing, bro.
The right to live, determine the course of your own life, and believe what you want to believe. As long as those beliefs and actions don’t take away someone else’s or harm them, have at it.
These rights exist because we do as humans. They come from the ability to reason which is what makes us different from animals.
Likewise, the most murderous, brutal regimes were the atheistic Socialist movements of the 20th Century: Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, Cambodia, Maoist China, and many many Communist regimes in Africa. I’d argue that any atheistic movement that has come to fruition in recent history has not been beneficial for the people it governed.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 11:26 am
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:16 am to ThuperThumpin
quote:I get into these debates all the time. It's my favorite thing to bring up with naturalist/atheists. They make objective morality arguments, then say morality is subjective. Because they know that there is no way to say that it is objective without there being of source for that objective morality. But to make a moral argument, you are proving objective morality.
I was raised Catholic as well but generally consider myself an agnostic. My question is focused on your use of the word inherent. I dont believe its inherent and that its a societal construct. Believers in a higher power can make the case its objective but I've never heard atheist or non believer do so. So where does an atheist believe these inherent rights come from? If they are subjective then they aren't inherent.
You say X is moral. I say X is immoral. If morality is subjective, we are both correct. But for you to say I am wrong about it being immoral, there has to be an objective morality. In that case, you would be making an argument that something is both moral and immoral at the same time. That's not logical. So morality has to be objective. But they will never concede that. It always devolves into insults ans smears from their end.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:16 am to VOR
VOR be all:
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:22 am to Bobby OG Johnson
So be it don’t frick with me I won’t frick back
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:27 am to ThuperThumpin
quote:
So where does an atheist believe these inherent rights come from? If they are subjective then they arent inherent.
The same argument can be placed on "rights by God"
Which God? Who determined what God said? Who wrote it down? Who interpreted it?
I believe a very small number of rights are inherent, mostly what would be considered as "human rights": life, liberty, etc.
I'm certainly not the arbiter of this. These are just my opinions.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:29 am to Bobby OG Johnson
So every human being's rights came from God. If that's the case, then why aren't rights universal?
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:30 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
The same argument can be placed on "rights by God"
Which God? Who determined what God said? Who wrote it down? Who interpreted it?
You're not wrong but you've shifted to epistemology instead of ontology.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:31 am to El Segundo Guy
The Second Amendment is more important in securing our rights than the Bible.
People having been perverting scriptures to justify all kinds of inhumane acts for centuries.
My weaponry ensures I have freedoms.
People having been perverting scriptures to justify all kinds of inhumane acts for centuries.
My weaponry ensures I have freedoms.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 11:35 am
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:32 am to Flats
I was responding to a post that said that rights not given by God would be subjective.
That's no different than rights given by God. It's all subjective, obviously. We don't have some big human rule book.
That's no different than rights given by God. It's all subjective, obviously. We don't have some big human rule book.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 11:33 am
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:44 am to Bjorn Cyborg
I just want to know if i have made it to yet another gov't list or not? I'm really trying to keep score.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:46 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:Not true. You can't make a logical argument for morality unless it's objective. You say X is moral. I say X is immoral. If morality is subjective, we are both correct. But for you to say I am wrong about it being immoral, there has to be an objective morality. In that case, you would be making an argument that something is both moral and immoral at the same time. That's not logical. So morality has to be objective.
I was responding to a post that said that rights not given by God would be subjective.
That's no different than rights given by God. It's all subjective, obviously. We don't have some big human rule book.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 11:48 am
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:48 am to bluestem75
quote:
You’ve heard of the term “human rights”? Thats the same thing, bro.
What bestows humans exclusively availed to those rights? If or when we create AI that has the same desire for self determination would you modify the term human rights? My point is it's subjective within a non religious framework. I dontt take issue with that position. It's one I hold as I've never heard an argument that makes sense otherwise.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:48 am to StrongOffer
We have the ability (God-given if you believe that way) to come up with whatever set of morals you feel comfortable with.
The laws that govern you come from man.
The laws that govern you come from man.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:50 am to El Segundo Guy
quote:Most of the laws in the western world come from biblical principles
The laws that govern you come from man.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:52 am to Bobby OG Johnson
War on Christians sad these demons will get some Christians
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:53 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
The same argument can be placed on "rights by God"
Which God? Who determined what God said? Who wrote it down? Who interpreted it?
Indeed....I don't disagree. My position is they aren't inherent without a religious framework. They are a societal contruct...a necessary one for the type of society I wantto live in but a construct none the less.
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