re: If you believe your rights come from God then you are a Christian Nationalist

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Now if you believe god bestows inherent rights making morality objective....do you believe the existence of god is provable? Would that be necessary to prove morality is objective?

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Maybe not proof in a sense an atheist would accept. But I’d say there’s a lot of evidence suggesting there is a God. More so than evidence that there isn’t a God. Is that proof? Maybe not.

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I'm a product of my environment that informs much of my morality..... that is constantly changing throughout time. I cant argue against it and be consistent.

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if your morality is fleeting, you have no morality

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Maybe not proof in a sense an atheist would accept. But I’d say there’s a lot of evidence suggesting there is a God. More so than evidence that there isn’t a God. Is that proof? Maybe not.

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Is that proof necessary for an objective morality? If so then we could agree morality might be/might not be objective? I think I could sorta meet you half way there.

I'll even rephrase more in line with your thinking. Is proof of God necessary for morality to exist period? If so and there is no proof of God then is there no proof morality exist

I think I was getting hung up in the objective-subjective argument and you were saying it morality does not exist at all if it's not objective.

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Is that proof necessary for an objective morality? If so then we could agree morality might be/might not be objective? I think I could sorta meet you half way there.

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I think you’ve ignored my original argument. The fact that people make moral arguments to begin with means morality is objective. And an objective morality has to have a source. I’m coming to the conclusion from the opposite side. Objective morality is proof for God, not the other way around.

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think you’ve ignored my original argument

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Lol....I just realized that and just rephrase my question. Sorry..doing busy work while trying to have a discussion like this is not the best idea.

So you beleive a universal objective morality exist and humans are evolving towards an understanding of that morality...is that correct?

I'm trying to understand how you define the changes in what we view as moral and immoral. Thats why I say it's subjective. What word besides morality do you use? Does that make sense?

Then I’m a Christian nationalist

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Lol....I just realized that and just rephrase my question. Sorry..doing busy work while trying to have a discussion like this is not the best idea.

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All good man. I’ve appreciated the good-natured discourse.

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So you beleive a universal objective morality exist and humans are evolving towards an understanding of that morality...is that correct? I'm trying to understand how you define the changes in what we view as moral and immoral. Thats why I say it's subjective. What word besides morality do you use? Does that make sense?

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I don’t believe we’re evolving to an objective morality, I believe we already know it. It’s not changing. We actually as a society and choosing to be immoral more and more. What you’re describing is maybe a personal outlook on life. Your personal opinions can change, but that doesn’t mean morality is changing. We’re all trying to decide what is good and bad. You’ll give your reasoning, I’ll give mine. You may even convince me and change to saying something is good. No matter what, to ask a question if something is good or bad, there has to be a correct answer. If our opinion changes, that doesn’t mean the correct answer has changed

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don’t believe we’re evolving to an objective morality, I believe we already know it. It’s not changing. We actually as a society and choosing to be immoral more and more. What you’re describing is maybe a personal outlook on life. Your personal opinions can change, but that doesn’t mean morality is changing.

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I'm talking about major cultural/moral shifts like ending slavery in the west...your saying that group of humans during that time knew slavery was immoral but chose to anyway? When was the morality code given to us? I'm trying hard here Ringo..to understand your prospective.

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I'm talking about major cultural/moral shifts like ending slavery in the west...your saying that group of humans during that time knew slavery was immoral but chose to anyway? When was the morality code given to us? I'm trying hard here Ringo..to understand your prospective.

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I’m saying there’s been an objective moral code since the beginning of time. Before the Bible, before the West, before any of us, people debated what was right and wrong. While that has changed, the underlying moral code was always there, unchanged. A objective morality. This is evidenced by the fact that people have always argued over what was good and bad for society. Not sure how I can better phrase what I’ve said before. If morality were subjective, there would be no way to make a moral argument. Our problem is we’re not on same page of what moral subjectivism. I guess I’m not explaining myself well enough

Edit: if you say slavery is bad, I say slavery is good (I absolutely don’t, for the sake of argument haha). If subjective morality were true, you would have no moral grounds to say I’m wrong. It’s up to me to decide what is moral or not.

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you are a Christian nationalist.

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Is this supposed to be a smear?