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re: If someone tells you they’re a Libertarian
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:19 pm to troyt37
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:19 pm to troyt37
quote:
If that's the case why are so many libertarians opposed to the death penalty for heinous crimes?
Because those libertarians believe the State should not have a legal sanction to kill and see opposition to the death penalty as part of a consistent pro-life and pro-liberty position.
Ron Paul: The Death Penalty Is The The Ultimate Corrupt, Big Government Program
quote:
....Since it is impossible to develop an error-free death penalty system, those who support the death penalty are embracing the idea that the government should be able to execute innocent people for the “greater good.”
The idea that the government should be able to force individuals to sacrifice their right to life for imaginary gains in personal safety is even more dangerous to liberty than the idea that the government should be able to force individuals to sacrifice their property rights for imaginary gains in economic security. Opposition to allowing the government to take life is also part of a consistent pro-life position.
Thus, those of any ideology who oppose abortion or preemptive war should also oppose the death penalty. Until the death penalty is abolished, we will have neither a free nor a moral society.
2
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:20 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
Everyone I know that is a libertarian is actually just an embarrassed democrat.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:23 pm to Aristo
If a current American really was a classic Libertarian, that person could not support Donald Trump nor Joe Biden.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:30 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
Since it is impossible to develop an error-free death penalty system,
That’s a horrible argument against the death penalty. He actually wrote that?
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:31 pm to Flats
quote:
He actually wrote that?
It’s linked above.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:36 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
It’s linked above.
I thought maybe it was a transcript. Speaking off the cuff it’s easier to make mistakes, but if he sat down and wrote that, had time to think about it and edit it, then thats’s not a great reflection on him.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:40 pm to Spelt it rong
quote:
Go have a military and have it be awesome AF. I'm in the minority of libertarians on this one
I’m with you. It’s possible to have mixed views about certain beliefs within a doctrine. That’s what makes America great. I consider myself a hawkish constitutionalist libertarian.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:48 pm to Flats
quote:
Speaking off the cuff it’s easier to make mistakes, but if he sat down and wrote that, had time to think about it and edit it, then thats’s not a great reflection on him.
Yes, it is insane for Ron Paul to dare question this nation’s system of justice or entertain the possibility that government could be in error or — worse — would pursue convictions for political purposes or a less than noble end? I mean, who dreams up this stuff?
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:49 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
That their a Libertarian.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:54 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
Yes, it is insane for Ron Paul to dare question this nation’s system of justice or entertain the possibility that government could be in error
Straw man much? I said it’s a terrible argument, not that being opposed to the death penalty is insane. If you agree with him I guess you don’t care if the argument is sound or not?
Posted on 5/26/20 at 6:59 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
Most of the anarcho-libertarians are on the spectrum incels that have pivoted to the alt-right/nationalist that happen to be white/dissident right/phrenology right.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 7:03 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
So many self-proclaimed "libertarians" these days are atheist, pro-choice frickfaces who think they're smarter than your average leftist so just picked a different "L" group with which to identify.
I don't really think of John Stossel or Ron Paul. More like sanctimonious Never Trumpers who probably own a snake and/or tarantula.
I don't really think of John Stossel or Ron Paul. More like sanctimonious Never Trumpers who probably own a snake and/or tarantula.
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 9:34 pm
Posted on 5/26/20 at 7:13 pm to Flats
quote:
Straw man much? I said it’s a terrible argument, not that being opposed to the death penalty is insane. If you agree with him I guess you don’t care if the argument is sound or not?
It would only be a horrible argument if the government was infallible. Since we all know that is absurd, it is both a wholly rational argument and a very principled position.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 7:29 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
It would only be a horrible argument if the government was infallible. Since we all know that is absurd, it is both a wholly rational argument and a very principled position.
It's a horrible argument because everything he said applies to any punishment meted out by the government. Is he arguing that we shouldn't have a justice system at all? Because if he's not, then his argument sucked.
"....Since it is impossible to develop an error-free incarceration system, those who support incarceration are embracing the idea that the government should be able to imprison innocent people for the “greater good.”
The idea that the government should be able to force individuals to sacrifice their right to liberty for imaginary gains in personal safety is even more dangerous to liberty than the idea that the government should be able to force individuals to sacrifice their property rights for imaginary gains in economic security. Opposition to allowing the government to take liberty is also part of a consistent pro-liberty position.
Thus, those of any ideology who oppose kidnapping or slavery should also oppose incarceration. Until incarceration is abolished, we will have neither a free nor a moral society."
That's why its a horrible argument. You could apply his logic, if you can call it that, to anything. The government isn't perfect therefore we shouldn't let it make any decisions, ever. Except pay his salary, I guess.
The argument against the death penalty that makes sense is that it's permanent. If we screw up and put an innocent guy in jail, there's still a chance the truth can come out and we can at least offer compensation and attempt to make it right. If they're dead and they get exonerated then there's no remedy.
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 5/26/20 at 7:31 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
That they are Democrats but don’t want to say it publicly.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 7:31 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
I don’t mind the platform in theory, but in practice libertarians tend to be far too idealistic.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 7:32 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
quote:
If someone tells you they’re a Libertarian
On this forum?
It tells me they’re too embarrassed to admit they voted for Clinton.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 7:34 pm to troyt37
quote:
If that's the case why are so many libertarians opposed to the death penalty for heinous crimes?
The state should not have the right or power to kill it's own citizens.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 7:38 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
It means I support my gay friends to have pot/LSD available at their wedding, while riding a tank covered in prostitutes.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 7:40 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I think their ideas are generally better than other parties.
How many of those ideas do not involve drugs?
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