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re: If someone tells you they’re a Libertarian

Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:45 pm to
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
31578 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:45 pm to
I tell them that they have to go back.
Posted by Esquire
Chiraq
Member since Apr 2014
14810 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:46 pm to
quote:

It's demonstrably false. We don't live in a theocracy and there's no major push for one. The closest we ever came to one was right after our founding, and just about every major move since then has been in the opposite direction


Prohibition says hi
Posted by Yat27
Austin
Member since Nov 2010
8363 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:46 pm to
You really have to ask more questions to know what they really believe. It's this huge, umbrella term that means different things to different people. I've heard small government conservatives to damn near anarchists describe themselves as such.
Posted by jackamo3300
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2004
2901 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:47 pm to
Perhaps clarification could be had by listening to the radio show Free Talk Live narrated by those of the ideology who are so frantic and concerned about their safety that they decided to broadcast, allegedly, from the safe confines of Saipan.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
70466 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:48 pm to
quote:

Nope, never made that claim. Get the f$&k outta here with your straw man.


I said evangelicals don’t believe that people should have free will because they often legislate arbitrary restrictions of freedom based on biblical morality. You said no they don’t and why don’t you criticize liberals for it? I gave examples of both liberals and evangelicals legislating morality in ways libertarians believe should not be regulated.

What is wrong with you? What is your issue with what I am saying?
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
28133 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:48 pm to
quote:

Prohibition says hi


So do the words "just about".
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
14682 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:48 pm to
quote:

Do you really think that if libertarians were presented with a proposal to end prohibition on marijuana, but everything else stays the same, that 99.99999999999% of them wouldn’t accept that deal?


Well sure they would. But that just isn't the way that the legislature works, is it? The reality for libertarians is they may get MJ legalized, but to do so, they have to get off the fence.

They have to accept a border wall, and a strong military etc, if they side with republicans. But they could get some of their agenda. Republicans aren't as opposed to MJ as it is portrayed.

They have to accept socialism, and ever more social programs, if they side with the democrats. But they could get some of their agenda there as well.

The reality is they ride the fence and shite on both parties agenda. And then complain because none of their agenda is ever implemented. Sure, most of the libertarian leaning are pretty cozy with republicans, but that's only to the extent of getting themselves elected. When it comes nut cutting time, republicans often find the libertarian knife in their back.
Posted by Esquire
Chiraq
Member since Apr 2014
14810 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

I said evangelicals don’t believe that people should have free will because they often legislate arbitrary restrictions of freedom based on biblical morality.


The evangelical Louisiana Family Forum loves legislating their morality. Imagine the cesspool of sin that LA would be if they allowed Daily Fantasy Sports.
Posted by Gtmodawg
PNW
Member since Dec 2019
4580 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

How do you interpret that in today’s political climate?


If I am in the mood to do so and I have time I will feign interest in what they mean....and inevitably if you do so long enough they will explain to you how they would reinvent every vestige of our current system of government, down to the smallest minutiae, only it would have their personal stamp of approval. They would re-invent the wheel and argue with stop signs until they were comfortable that the rest of the world knew that they and only they could possibly comprehend the complexities of the world and are the leading expert on addressing them...again, by reinventing every institution, every regulation, every form, if you go that far, with their letterhead on it. When they are called sophomoric it is an insult to sophomores because at least sophomores have the option of critical thought....libertarians, not so much....
Posted by abellsujr
Member since Apr 2014
38455 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:52 pm to
It’s the most pure form without going overboard. I feel it’s the best balance between parties. I’m not saying that I agree with everything that that label comes with. But I fall into that category for the majority of my beliefs. For the most part, if an action does not cause physical harm to another person, I feel like it’s a dumb law. I know there’s a lot of gray area with that statement, but what a person chooses to do with themselves I feel like is their business. And laws should never be based on morality, unless again, it causes direct physical harm to someone.
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 3:53 pm
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
28133 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

There’s a bigly difference between “morality” activities only effecting the consenting persons who partake in it and “morality” which involves voiding consent of a party.


Why do I need his consent to have an orgy in a public park? It's none of his libertarian business, correct?


Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
28133 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:58 pm to
quote:

I said evangelicals don’t believe that people should have free will because they often legislate arbitrary restrictions of freedom based on biblical morality.


No, this is what you said:

quote:

They seem to legislate by the idea that if God says it’s sinful (drugs, gambling, prostitution, alcohol, etc) then no one should be allowed to do it.


I don't have an issue with your first statement, I just think it's meaningless because it applies to everybody if you take out "biblical". Everybody wants restrictions of freedom based on morality. That's what laws are, and everybody but anarchists want laws.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
70466 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:59 pm to
Libertarians don’t believe in public parks, that park systems would be more efficient and offer superior services if privately run for profit.

The libertarian creed is essentially:
If government didn’t do it, would you pay someone for it?
If no, then government shouldn’t do it because it’s not worth a shitte.
If yes, then government isn’t needed to do it because enough demand exists for the free market to step in and fill the void if government stopped doing it.

An orgy, assuming all parties are consenting adults capable of giving consent, is not illegal. The only potential issue is location.

As for the right to hold an orgy in a given location, a park, you would have to take that up with the property owner. Whoever owns the property gets to decide who can do what on that property. A public park is owned by the people, who allow themselves to be represented by a government. So, whether or not you can have an orgy in a public park would be up to whatever government organization manages said park, but in a perfect libertarian land, there would be no public park and the private park owner would have the final say.
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 4:01 pm
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
28133 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 4:00 pm to
quote:

And laws should never be based on morality, unless again, it causes direct physical harm to someone.


That's a moral basis for law in and of itself. Not one shared by all cultures, in fact. But if they come here we force them to abide by our values, not theirs.

And there's nothing wrong with that.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
70466 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 4:01 pm to
Anarchists and libertarians are not the same thing, though there is some significant crossover.

Anarchists want no government. Libertarians want less government. Small potatoes distinction when our present government is so large, but the desired end results are VERY different.
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 4:04 pm
Posted by Friar Tuck
Planet Earth
Member since Nov 2016
691 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 4:01 pm to
That they believe in more freedoms and less government.
Posted by 1BamaRTR
In Your Head Blvd
Member since Apr 2015
24837 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 4:03 pm to
I’d ask them what they think libertarian means since a lot of people don’t seem to know. I’ve seen so many Bernie bro types say that they’re libertarians which is the opposite of what Bernie is.
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 4:03 pm
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
28133 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 4:03 pm to
quote:

but in a perfect libertarian land, there would be no public park and the private park owner would have the final say.



But we don't have that. Should I be able to have the orgy or not? It'll go nicely with the strip club I set up across the street from an elementary school.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
70466 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 4:04 pm to
Bernie is pretty decent on individual liberty, but a monster on economic liberty. The problem is too many people don’t understand that there can be no one without the other.
Posted by gthog61
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
71001 posts
Posted on 5/26/20 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

That they believe in more freedoms and less government.



I know that making a virtue signalling vote for some nut to give biden a better chance to win is the bestest way to pursue this goal!
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