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Message
re: If someone tells you they’re a Libertarian
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:12 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:12 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
Voting for the guy who does what the liberal does at a slower pace isn't worth it either.
Ensuring the faster paced liberal is elected damn sure isn't the answer.
1
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:12 pm to Flats
If you don’t think lying is enforced, lie in court, lie in an advertisement, lie on your taxes, lie to your insurance adjuster, lie to a police officer, etc.
Give up your pathetic attempt at a gotcha. Lying isn’t a moral vice that only harms the perpetrator, but rather a means of violating the consent of others or hiding other crimes. As I said, consent is the bedrock of libertarianism, democracy, and capitalism.
And we absolutely do police cheating spouses in civil court.
Give up your pathetic attempt at a gotcha. Lying isn’t a moral vice that only harms the perpetrator, but rather a means of violating the consent of others or hiding other crimes. As I said, consent is the bedrock of libertarianism, democracy, and capitalism.
And we absolutely do police cheating spouses in civil court.
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 3:13 pm
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:15 pm to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
What I don't always find is consistency.
To be fair, that's tough to do across any political ideal. There are gray areas, and lines typically have to be drawn somewhere.
Having said that, one of my favorites is when libertarians speak out in favor of the SCOTUS gay marriage decision.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:17 pm to kingbob
quote:
Give up your pathetic attempt at a gotcha.
Explaining why you're wrong isn't a "gotcha". You made a false claim; it happens.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:19 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
The worst possible combination of Bill Clinton and GWB jr.
Not economically similar to either of those two. His trade policies are far more nativist than Clinton and W, who were both all for free trade.
The Orange Man also threw libertarians a huge bone by essentially stripping the fed of its power and returning it to the treasury department as well as his work to change the ACOE’s definition of “waters of the United States” back to navigable waters, reversing decades of federal overreach in property rights.
He has also shown a fair amount of restraint in military intervention abroad.
Where Trump has been awful has been in bailouts, gun rights, domestic spending, and his “repeal” of Obamacare was a pathetic half-hearted effort.
Like I said, real mixed bag that doesn’t conveniently fall under any label.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:20 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
delete
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:20 pm to Flats
quote:
Explaining why you're wrong isn't a "gotcha". You made a false claim; it happens.
How was my claim false?
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:20 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
How do you interpret that in today’s political climate?
Libertarian aka rino/democrap plant, POS.
Libertarian aka rino/democrap plant, POS.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:21 pm to SlowFlowPro
The only time I've seen the "well actually, defense" for pedos is when you bring up Roy Moore on this board.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:26 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
I'm libertarian. I'd like as little government interference in my life as possible.
Agree.
quote:
I'd like to see our Defense budget cut.
I'd like to see that as well. But that would mean other countries would have to do something about their crazies, and some of these other countries are populated by crazies from stem to stern.
quote:
I'd like us to cease serving as the world's police force.
100%. But when we have to take action, to beat back the crazies, I want to be able to unapologetically kill people and blow up shite, until those in receipt of this lesson would never consider provoking me to action again.
quote:
I'd like blue laws to go away. I hate asset forfeiture abuse, prosecutorial abuse, and perp walks.
Agree.
quote:
Illegality of marijuana is stupid.
Agree. Problem being, much like the abortion issue on the conservative side, you guys want it all. You want cocaine, heroin, crack, meth, everything legal. Can't support that. Just like I can't support forcing a rape victim to birth their rapists, child, or a minor daughter to birth her father's or uncle's child.
quote:
I'd dare guess a majority of posters here would far more closely align with libertarian ideals than they would those of Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush, Jeff Flake, etc. May be I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
Agree. It's the foreign policy and drug stance that keeps me at loggerheads with libertarians. That and the fact that the libertarian leaning in the legislature always seem to find an excuse to thwart the conservative agenda when it is most important.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:28 pm to kingbob
quote:
How was my claim false?
quote:
They seem to legislate by the idea that if God says it’s sinful (drugs, gambling, prostitution, alcohol, etc) then no one should be allowed to do it.
It's demonstrably false. We don't live in a theocracy and there's no major push for one. The closest we ever came to one was right after our founding, and just about every major move since then has been in the opposite direction.
Again, I find it curious that the (religious) right is typically the target for this attack, never the left. When they legislate morality does it not bother you as much?
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:29 pm to Flats
I’m not labeling all Christians here. I’m talking about a specific group.
But the bottom line is, I’m for free will. I’m for being left alone to determine what is and is not acceptable for me. If you believe in that as well, I’m not sure why we’re having this conversation.
quote:Actually yes. They have.
Do they knock on your door on Sunday morning and tell you you're a bad parent and try to take your kids to church?
quote:Yes, when they directly affect those around you. Specifically physical harm.
Do you want laws?
But the bottom line is, I’m for free will. I’m for being left alone to determine what is and is not acceptable for me. If you believe in that as well, I’m not sure why we’re having this conversation.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:33 pm to troyt37
quote:
Agree. Problem being, much like the abortion issue on the conservative side, you guys want it all.
Do you really think that if libertarians were presented with a proposal to end prohibition on marijuana, but everything else stays the same, that 99.99999999999% of them wouldn’t accept that deal?
Sure, the perfect libertarian world has no entitlements, no property taxes, no income taxes, no estate taxes, no payroll taxes, no minimum wage, no occupational/business licenses/permits, open borders, no hunting licenses, no overseas military bases, no fishing licenses, a consistent age of majority for consenting to sex, contracts, and rights, etc.
However, they would all leap at the chance to take that deal and start chipping away at the many mountains of government overreach left to conquer.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:36 pm to Flats
quote:
It's demonstrably false. We don't live in a theocracy and there's no major push for one. The closest we ever came to one was right after our founding, and just about every major move since then has been in the opposite direction
So, evangelical politicians never support policies rooted in biblical morality? No christian has ever gone to the legislature advocating Blue Laws? Get the f$&k outta here with that nonsense.
quote:
Again, I find it curious that the (religious) right is typically the target for this attack, never the left. When they legislate morality does it not bother you as much?
The left is criticized by libertarians CONSTANTLY for their attacks on free speech, buying large sodas, banning trans fats, deciding what products people can buy, censoring media, etc.
IT’S BAD WHEN BOTH SIDES DO IT!!!
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:38 pm to abellsujr
quote:
But the bottom line is, I’m for free will. I’m for being left alone to determine what is and is not acceptable for me.
So if my free will leads me to set up a blanket next to your family picnic at a public park and start having an orgy, is that acceptable? It's not causing you physical harm.
I'm just trying to get you to see that laws enforce values. They always have. We have to interact with each other in public, we have to conduct business with each other, we have different ideas about what age constitutes a legal adult who can make their own decisions about who they have sex with; it's an endless list of rules that every society has. Rules define civilizations, and rules are based on values. The conversation to have is over which values are important enough to codify, but that conversation is impossible with people who don't think they want any values legislated to begin with.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:39 pm to kingbob
And the majority of the far right is attacking any type of government that requires them to wear masks, social distance, etc.
Well, so are we. It just doesn’t end there with us. Libertarianism is the most pure form of freedom.
Well, so are we. It just doesn’t end there with us. Libertarianism is the most pure form of freedom.
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:42 pm to kingbob
quote:
So, evangelical politicians never support policies rooted in biblical morality? No christian has ever gone to the legislature advocating Blue Laws? Get the f$&k outta here with that nonsense.
Nope, never made that claim. Get the f$&k outta here with your straw man.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:42 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
Not sure, but I probably have more in common with Libertarians than anyone else, however, I am never going to vote for a Libertarian because I am a single issue voter. My single issue is voting for what will cause Democrats the most pain.
This post was edited on 5/26/20 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:44 pm to abellsujr
quote:
Libertarianism is the most pure form of freedom.
Anarchy is the most pure form of freedom.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 3:45 pm to Flats
There’s a bigly difference between “morality” activities only effecting the consenting persons who partake in it and “morality” which involves voiding consent of a party.
For example, smoking marijuana. Marijuana is grown by someone who wants to grow it and sold to someone who wants to buy it, and smoked by someone who wants to smoke it. This process doesn’t cause some random bystander’s head to explode. The immoral conduct only effects the person indulging in it. Libertarians say that is the sort of conduct government has no business regulating.
Murder, is not consensual. If it was, it would be assisted suicide (something else many libertarians are in favor of legalizing which evangelicals are not).
Lying is a conduct that is sometimes illegal depending on context. Lying is used to either cover up evidence of a wrong-doing or to fool someone into giving consent on false pretenses. Lying is a breach of contract because it voids the consent necessary to effectuate that contract. God, you’re dense:
For example, smoking marijuana. Marijuana is grown by someone who wants to grow it and sold to someone who wants to buy it, and smoked by someone who wants to smoke it. This process doesn’t cause some random bystander’s head to explode. The immoral conduct only effects the person indulging in it. Libertarians say that is the sort of conduct government has no business regulating.
Murder, is not consensual. If it was, it would be assisted suicide (something else many libertarians are in favor of legalizing which evangelicals are not).
Lying is a conduct that is sometimes illegal depending on context. Lying is used to either cover up evidence of a wrong-doing or to fool someone into giving consent on false pretenses. Lying is a breach of contract because it voids the consent necessary to effectuate that contract. God, you’re dense:
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