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Squirrelmeister
| Favorite team: | LSU  |
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| Number of Posts: | 3492 |
| Registered on: | 11/7/2021 |
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Message
re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/12/26 at 8:54 am to cssamerican
quote:
I understand why some question Jesus’ divinity, it’s a faith issue, and views differ. But the historical evidence strongly supports Jesus as a real first-century Jewish man from Judea who taught boldly, attracted followers, and was arrested, tried, and crucified under Pontius Pilate (during Tiberius’s reign, around AD 30–33) because of his disruptive claims.
I disagree with the part I bolded. Sure it’s possible that could have happened, a Jewish apocalyptic preacher who got himself killed - sure that makes sense. But the evidence is strong against it. The 7 authentic letters of Paul, Colossians, Ephesians, Hebrews, Revelation, James, 1 Peter, and Jude all reference a heavenly cosmic Christ who was killed in heaven and none of those texts makes any mention or has any knowledge of the gospel Jesus walking around Judea and Galilee. On top of that, we know 100% that there were actual real Christians who rejected the gospels in favor of this heavenly version of Jesus who was never on earth. We see it in 1 John and 2 John where the author calls those other Christians who rejected Jesus came to earth in the flesh as “antichrists”. We see it in 2 Peter where the author says it was for real true that Jesus really was on earth. Who’s that guy writing to??? Other Christians who denied the earthly gospel version of Jesus.
Why did “he was crucified under Pontius Pilate” get incorporated into the Nicene Creed? Simple. Because many Christians denied such a thing ever happened and they were trying to standardize and “correct” the various Christian sects into a single belief system.
quote:
Flavius Josephus
Preserved by Christians, not by the Jews who viewed him as a traitor. The Testimonium Flavianum and the other one are Christian interpolations - that is the scholarly consensus.
quote:
Tacitus
Not contemporary to the original Jesus movement, and he wrote after the gospel traditions of the earthly tradition started to circulate. It’s reliable in the sense that it “proves” there were Christians who believed in the gospel story at the time he wrote, but it doesn’t prove Jesus the man actually existed.
quote:
The books were written relatively quickly: Paul’s letters in the 50s AD, the Gospels were within the lifespan of potential eyewitnesses
Yet one of the gospel authors even makes the claim to be an eyewitness. The scholarly consensus is that they were written from about 70-150CE. They are 100% literarily dependent on each other, with undeniable evidence of direct copying.
quote:
Additionally, many early believers, including eyewitnesses and those who knew Jesus personally, faced severe persecution yet refused to deny his resurrection and identity. Historical records show no recantations; figures like James (Jesus’ brother) were executed for their faith, and others like Peter and Paul met similar fates according to early sources. Their willingness to die rather than recant suggests genuine conviction, not fabrication.
This early sources are apocryphal gospels that have been rejected by Christians except for the pieces that describe how the disciples died. There is no evidence- other than literary works that have been rejected by Christians- that show those disciples died for a lie or that they even existed.
Some folks like to say that Paul and Josephus both said Jesus had a brother - James. Must be a historical person, right? But they fail to recognize that all baptized Christians were called “Brothers of the Lord” and also even “sons of (the most high) God”.
1
re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/11/26 at 10:07 pm to RoyalWe
quote:
Let me ask something directly: what would actually count as evidence for you? Not rhetorically, but concretely. Historical reliability of the resurrection accounts? Philosophical coherence? Some kind of experiential component? Or is the issue that supernatural claims are ruled out from the start?
Someone being resurrected from the dead is impossible, so to believe it actually happened, for me, I would have to have extraordinary evidence. I’m not sure I can even fathom what that might entail. But the evidence provided is not what I would call evidence. All I have are literary creations that are confirmed copies of copies of redacted and modified copies of earlier literary creations that are certainly mythical (the gospels) - none of which include authors that claim to be eyewitnesses. Plus we have Paul’s writings which most plausibly appears to be writings of a mythical Jesus who was crucified and resurrected in the heavens. So neither the gospels nor Paul’s letters in my mind are credible of an earthly Jesus who ever lived on earth much less was resurrected. And the epistle to the Hebrews also depicts Jesus’ sacrifice being carried out in the heavenly temple not made of human hands. And Revelation, Jude, 1 Peter, and James all depict a heavenly Jesus with no mention at all of anything he ever did on earth. Then we have the “Ascension of Isaiah” which is an apocryphal text found in Egypt that was written earlier than the gospels that depicts Paul’s gospel of the heavenly Jesus killed in heaven by the archons. And we have Philo’s Logos who inhabited Joshua (Iesous in Greek, Jesus in English) who was the firstborn son of God… through him all things were made… essentially had all the attributes of Jesus minus the sacrifice. So I know some sects of Jews were worshipping a Logos/Jesus/son of God character a hundred years before Pontius Pilate. So it’s not just a lack of evidence, but a positive evidence that Jesus was fabricated that has me unconvinced Jesus ever existed as a man.
Then of course we have 1 John and 2 John and 2 Peter that seem to be arguing against other Christians who did not believe Jesus ever came to earth in the flesh and did not believe anyone ever saw, walked with, talked with, or ate with Jesus on earth. Despite the orthodox view today, there were “mythicist” Christians who never believed in the earthly Jesus. I have to decide… is it likely Jesus existed and some changed their ideas to him never having existed, or did Jesus start as a mythical being that some invented stories about him on earth. I think the latter. And there is precedent in that exact thing happened 100 miles away from Jerusalem in Egypt with the cult of Osiris… they invented gospels and invented a historical Osiris that Plutarch wrote about. It’s very interesting- Plutarch says the cult was about a heavenly Osiris deity and that the cult made up a story of an earthly Osiris- they set him up as a historical Pharoah, but that it was a tool to convert new initiates - that the initiates believed the historical story while the mature in the cult knew the truth that Osiris was a heavenly deity never being on earth.
I can’t rule out supernatural claims, but I need to see convincing evidence of such a claim, and there not only has been no evidence of such claims, but there is positive evidence proving supernatural claims to be false. Like the creation of the world and mankind - proven false by science through geography, paleontology, genetics, phylogeny, geology, radiometric decay, evolution, and so on.
quote:
if something didn’t meet certain standards of evidence and non-contradiction, I rejected it.
When in John I read Jesus said no one had ever been to heaven except him, but in 2 Kings I read Elijah went to heaven in a fiery chariot, that right there is a contradiction and makes the whole thing suspect. When one gospel says Jesus told his disciples to take nothing but a staff, and another gospel says not to take a staff, that’s a problem. When one book says to sacrifice your firstborn on the 8th day - to rip him from his mother and “give to the Lord”, while another chapter in that same book says not to do that, we have a problem. When I read “God” as a bloodthirsty monster willing to kill innocent children and babies, that’s a problem. When I learn about ancient religions and figure out how the Jews fit into the west Semitic Canaanite religions as influenced by Egypt and Persia and later Greek philosophy, that’s a problem for believing it to be divinely inspired.
quote:
So I understand narrowing what you’ll allow as knowledge. I’m not assuming bad faith or secret rebellion.
Good. Many on this site can’t even compute what I write or even understand my vantage point. I can understand theirs - I’ve had their vantage point - I believed in God for a time. Many can’t even understand my arguments and it doesn’t help that they have no scientific training or education whatsoever. Someone did a disservice to them by not teaching them the basics of science.
quote:
It seems to me the real fork in the road isn’t “why would someone choose hell?” but whether Christianity’s core claims — especially the resurrection — clear whatever evidentiary bar we think is reasonable.
Would you agree that belief is not a choice. I couldn’t will myself to just believe - genuinely believe, I lived on Mars. I’m not convinced I live on mars. The evidence around me contradicts I am on mars. I do not believe I am on mars, whether I wish I was a Martian or not. I don’t think believing in God or Jesus is reasonable, but maybe you do. I get it.
quote:
So I’m genuinely curious: what would move the needle for you, if anything? That seems like the more productive place to focus
I’m not sure. Maybe for the Bible to contain scientific facts the people wouldn’t have known about thousands of years ago but is today proven to be true. So like if the Bible said we are on a spherical planet circling the sun and that the sun was massive compared to the earth and that the moon was smaller than earth and rotated around it… that would’ve been a good start. But instead the Bible says we live on a flat disc of an earth with a firm dome on top and that above the dome is an ocean of water and that the sun and moon are the same size and are IN the firmament.
Maybe some supernatural revelation experience? If God showed himself, which he could easily do since he’s omnipresent and omnipotent and loves me, then I would believe. But God is invisible and silent.
Is there anything that could move your needle in my direction? If you say no, then that would mean you are closed minded. What would it take?
re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/10/26 at 11:48 pm to RoyalWe
quote:
I want to jump in here because I don’t think the only two options are “you agree with us” or “you secretly know and are rebelling.”
To many on this site, those are the only two options. It’s sad that they cannot think clearly and rationally (my opinion - if they did think rationally, they wouldn’t be a believing Christian).
quote:
At least from my perspective, I don’t assume you’re lying about being unconvinced
Thank you - that is refreshing.
quote:
I also don’t assume Jews or Muslims secretly believe Jesus is Lord and are consciously choosing hellfire.
That is what many on this site believe - that they are “choosing” hellfire. When I’ve asked “how does that make sense?” The replies have been ad hominem attacks. What do you think they believe is the motivation for “rejecting the Truth” and receiving a punishment of eternal conscious torment? Eternity is a long time.
quote:
You’re right that Christians reject Zeus or Vishnu without feeling like we’re rebelling against something we secretly know is true. So it’s fair to say someone can be genuinely unconvinced.
Thank you. I don’t know what the secret is though to get some of the fervent believers to understand it though. I give them analogies and examples of them rejecting the plethora of other imaginary deities, and I’m just like them except for me it’s one more deity.
quote:
The disagreement isn’t “you’re lying.” It’s that we evaluate the claims about Jesus differently. That’s a substantive disagreement, not a moral accusation.
Bravo!
re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/10/26 at 11:34 pm to scottydoesntknow
quote:
You arent unconvinced.
Your dogma is strong, but it is wrong.
Just as you are unconvinced that Ra, Shemesh, Helios, or the deity with whom Jacob wrestled carries the sun across the sky each day, I am unconvinced. You have the perfect analogy there, but I’m not sure you will understand it or accept it.
quote:
There's plenty of men far more intellectually capable than you or I will ever be that believed in God
Generally speaking, it is factual that there is a correlation that higher IQ is associated with higher rates of atheism. That doesn’t mean there aren’t intelligent believers… there are, but they’re not nearly as intelligent as the most intelligent atheists.
And there aren’t plenty of men more intellectually capable than me. I’m pretty close to the 99.9th percentile, about 3 standard deviations above the mean IQ for caucasians. I’m no dummy. I’ve got to attend a meeting or conference with others in my line of work to not be the smartest guy in the room. I understand what it is like to not be convinced of something.
quote:
You are just choosing to reject God.
I’ve said this many times. I cannot reject something that I am unconvinced exists.
quote:
Thats your decision, its an unwise one
It’s not my decision. There is no free will on what someone determines to be convincing. I cannot choose to believe the moon is made of cheese just because I’d like to believe it. Your assertion that is a decision is incorrect, and baseless.
re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/10/26 at 11:09 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
While this is the correct answer
No, it is pure stupidity. It’s based on your dogma that there are only two categories.
1. Those who believe what you believe
2. Those who know the Truth but rebel against it
quote:
Exactly what does he have to do to demonstrate that he is not discussing in good faith before y'all stop enabling him here?
None of you realize it is you who aren’t capable of discussing in good faith. I either agree with you, or I’m lying - that’s what you believe about me. You think I’m lying about being unconvinced of your deity, despite you being unconvinced of Zeus or Ahura Mazda or Wodin or Baal Hadad or Vishnu or even the other Jewish gods such as Asherah and Nehushtan. That’s precisely why I assert that most of you are being hypocritical.
Is that what you believe about Jews and Muslims? That they really “know” Jesus is the creator of the universe and saved them, but they’d rather “rebel” against their creator and spend eternity in hellfire? Can we think about that? How can that make sense? How can someone choose to spend eternity in hellfire? You can’t say they reject the concept of a deity… they pray and many are very devout. Maybe they are truly unconvinced, like me.
re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/10/26 at 5:09 pm to Canon951
quote:
Jesus came to fulfill the law, which he did, and then he paid the penalty on our behalf so we don't have to. He kept the law. That is what he meant when he said he came to uphold the law. Now we just have to believe that he did that for us and paid for all of our sins. Past, present and future. There is no amount of lawkeeping we can do now to add to what he accomplished on our behalf. The gospel is simple. Man is the one that has made it confusing.
Since you never read Matthew, let me post an excerpt of Chapter 5 for you.
Study it carefully:
quote:
17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
That part I bolded - that’s you. You will be least. Do you want to be least?
re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/10/26 at 5:06 pm to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Believing this heresy will send you straight to hell
So because I am unconvinced by the claims of your magic fantastical religion…
Being convinced or unconvinced of something is involuntary, whether I want something to be true or not, being unconvinced is not conscience decision making.
But you’re saying that because I am unconvinced, something that I do not have the free will to choose, then I will burn in hell forever?
If that’s the case, then your deity is not just.
But we already know he isn’t just… from reading the Bible.
re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/10/26 at 6:58 am to Canon951
quote:
Thats exactly what Paul was getting onto the Galatians about. They had been told they had to believe in Jesus and keep the law.
He called them “Foolish Galatians” in his letter for wanting to keep the Jewish law to follow the Jewish messiah… the one who told his disciples that he didn’t come to abolish the law, and that they must comply with every stroke and dot of the law, and be better at following the law than the Pharisees. It was a rebuke of Paul’s message when Jesus said whoever tells others not to follow the Jewish law would be least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17+)
Jesus goes on and on and says it’s not good enough just to not murder… don’t even get angry at anyone. It’s not good enough not to commit adultery, but don’t even look at a woman with lust, and so on.
Obviously, Christianity was an offshoot of Judaism, and there were circulating traditions that said followers of Jesus must follow the Jewish law and be Jewish. Paul taught the exact opposite. Whoever wrote “Matthew” wrote the end of chapter 5 (decades after Paul died) specifically to rebuke Paul’s ideas by putting his own ideas and traditions of having to follow the Jewish law directly into the mouth of the Jewish messiah.
re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/9/26 at 10:14 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
imjustafatkid
I didn’t google shite, fatty. It’s right out of the Bible (ESV) you fat frick.
re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/9/26 at 8:07 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
Where it is stated that Christian love involves calling people to repentance? It's Jesus' entire message throughout the Bible. You'd have to not read it to believe otherwise.
Let’s see what “Jesus” says:
quote:
If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.
quote:
Easiest example everyone seems to know: the story of the woman at the well. "Go and sin no more."
Might want to check your story. 28 retards liked your post, but none of them caught that you are confusing the Samaritan woman at the well with the other woman caught in adultery. And that woman caught in adultery story was a later addition to the gospel of John… it’s not in the originals… the earliest manuscripts do not contain this story which is why scholars know this is a forgery / later addition.
re: Is accelerationism a moral political strategy?
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/8/26 at 6:42 pm to omegaman66
quote:
the rapture happened 2000 years ago and it was the Roman doing the killing
If by that you mean Jesus’ ascent into heaven was “the” rapture, would the ascension of Enoch or Elijah bodily into heaven not be the rapture before the rapture? Also there’s the Midrashes that claim Moses was also resurrected and ascended bodily into heaven, so that could be a third rapture before Jesus’ rapture.
In the gospel of Luke, we even get Moses and Elijah meeting with Jesus at the transfiguration. That’s more evidence that there were some traditions that had Moses and Elijah in heaven.
A little later though, in the gospel of John, he writes no one has ever been to heaven except the one (Jesus) who just descended from heaven. He was rebuking the gospel we now call Luke. But if you ignore the gospel of John, then Enoch, Elijah, and (if you add the ancient Midrashes) Moses had all been raptured before Jesus.
re: Is accelerationism a moral political strategy?
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/8/26 at 2:47 pm to BrianKellysbuyout
quote:
Just give it to them and bring on the rapture.
Just as the framework/doctrine of the father, son, and holy spirit being co-eternal, co-eternal, and co-powerful and of the same substance in a single deity was developed in the 4th century…. The Rapture was a theological development of the 19th century. For 1800 years of Christianity, the concept of the rapture did not exist. The final judgement of the living and the dead was supposed to happen when Jesus comes to destroy and remake Heaven and earth and the saved would live on a newly rebuilt perfect earth with Jesus as the king.
Even the modern Christian concept of going to heaven when you die was a foreign concept. The dead were supposed to be asleep awaiting on Jesus to come to earth, and the dead in Christ and those still alive would float up to meet Jesus as he descended to earth, like an escort for a dignitary (they would escort Jesus all the way down to earth, not float up to heaven with Jesus).
re: A story of what suicidal empathy gets you
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/8/26 at 9:01 am to FooManChoo
quote:
You think empiricism is a sufficient epistemological methodology?
It’s a sufficient to prove all your dogmatic beliefs completely wrong.
quote:
The scientific method cannot answer the most important questions in life. I suggest you delve more into philosophy.
It’s enough to prove people don’t come from two created beings 6000 years ago and that the earth isn’t a flat disk with a crystalline dome on top holding back the waters of heaven, and that there never was a global flood.
quote:
The truth from God's revelation is not baseless, as I've said, and it isn't based on emotions. There are hard truths that God has revealed
There are no hard truths revealed by an imaginary deity. Your beliefs are baseless, as in you have no reasons to accept “the Bible” as “the Truth” other than it’s what you choose to do because I presume it makes you happy or gives you comfort. But that isn’t rational or scientific. Most of the Bible’s claims of historical events not only couldn’t have happened, but we know they did not happen, such as the global flood (a story ripped off from the Sumerians).
quote:
I suggest you look up the transcendental argument of God's existence.
They aren’t arguments- just baseless assertions. I farted, therefore God exists and he made me fart. It presupposes the “God of the Bible” is the only deity that could be responsible for any of the stuff in the argument. At its fundamental level, the transcendental argument is simply an assertion of some supernatural creator or mind but it’s not an argument for your particular version of your imaginary sky daddy. The argument can and is applied to Allah and the Hindu deities and so on.
quote:
You are thoroughly convinced by what you've read and the interpretations of the evidence presented to you that evolution is the cause of all life on this planet.
You apologists are the dumbest bunch, always confusing and conflating evolution of species (the best supported scientific theory in existence - better supported than gravity and electromagnetism) with hypotheses about the beginnings of life on this planet. Whether life formed through some sort of natural process, or by an alien method or by a deity or deities, none of that changes evolution of species, which is a “hard Truth”. You probably don’t even understand what a scientific theory is.
“Evolution is just a theory” - idiots
quote:
That makes the most sense to you because you've already rejected even the possibility of miraculous intervention by God in the natural world
There’s never been an evidently true divine miracle. Perhaps I shouldn’t discount divine intervention. Anything is possible, after all. One thing I know is not possible though is a miracle from your “God” as the one from the Bible, because that particular deity does not exist.
quote:
It is a logical reality that if what you believe is true, there is no point to anything.
That last part is your opinion. The logical fallacy is your position - since there can’t be no point to our existence, there must be a god, but not just any god, but my specific God who is one God in three persons.
You have an emotional need for your imaginary friend, so you can’t imagine he doesn’t exist. Despite your emotional needs, the objective facts are the objective facts.
quote:
Next time you hear about rape, torture, or murder, just shrug your shoulders and say, "well that was right to that rapist/torturer/murderer, so I can't judge it". And when people say things you don't think are true, just ignore it, because it doesn't matter, because nothing matters.
This topic is boring at this point. You’re a liar and you’re disingenuous, and you’ve read my responses many times that all morality is subjective, but there are social norms that most people ca agree on to be used for judgement. Just like good and bad tasting food is opinion, but yet we can still judge what tastes good and what tastes bad. Your position is moot anyway, because your deity doesn’t exist and even if he did, there’s still no objectivity contained within the Bible because there are multiple contradictory statements about morality. Plus it’s a book written by savages, where murder, slavery, and rape were all permitted. It’s sick. You should be ashamed but you aren’t.
quote:
We've been over this many times. You're wrong and I've explained why before.
Agree on the first part. Second part is a lie, you liar.
quote:
Everything about morality is subjective if there is no objective moral law-giver.
So it’s subjective. It’s what I’ve been telling you.
quote:
God didn't create the golden calf through a miracle and then bait the people into killing each other.
Well that isn’t what ancient rabbis believed based on their commentaries of scripture. And he did the same with Adam and even with the tree and the same to the Egyptians during the exodus. Each time, Yahweh created the problem and then when the human made the wrong choice (due to limited knowledge, or due to Yahweh overriding their free will) then they were punished. He told the Israelite army to go conquer Ai and when they were slaughtered, it was revealed Yahweh set them up because some dude kept a few shekels of silver that was supposed to be given to the priests after the plunder of Jericho. Yahweh sets people up for punishment. He’d be evil if he existed.
quote:
God judged the people for their idolatry and rebellion
No, stupid. They weren’t worshipping an idol. They were worshipping Yahweh through the golden bull image. They weren’t rebelling against Yahweh, but rather holding a feast for Yahweh. And that a-hole punished them by slaughtering them for a rule he had not even given them yet.
re: Trump posted a video that depicts the Obama’s as monkeys
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/7/26 at 1:09 pm to TDTOM
quote:
Those are apes, you bufoon.
All humans (black and white alike) are apes, monkeys, primates, placentals, mammals, chordates, and animals.
re: A story of what suicidal empathy gets you
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/7/26 at 11:28 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Again, you don't know what "baseless" means. You think that the only basis for truth is your own sense perception,
Look in the mirror, Bill. And think about what you’re typing. My basis for truth is objective reality determined by the scientific method. It is your “Truth” that is based on baseless assertions, emotion, and fallacious and circular arguments.
quote:
as if you could make sense of anything--including your senses--in a world without God creating and upholding all things by the word of His power.
There you go again - baseless assertions.
quote:
I agree that just because I believe the Scriptures are divine doesn't mean they are. My belief in them doesn't make them true. They are true regardless of whether I believe them.
Another baseless assertion… based solely on your beliefs. You can’t demonstrate any of it to be true. You can’t presuppose the Bible is the “Truth” and circularly assert that we know it is the “Truth” because it comes from the Bible. It’s sad that you claim that I am the illogical one. Pathetic, really.
quote:
What I believe is not baseless
It is. You can’t take the first step in showing any of your beliefs are objectively true. You simply assert truthfulness from a collection of ancient stories and contradictory propaganda. It’s no different than a Greek asserting that Achilles was dipped in the river Styx by his heels because a story says so.
quote:
as if you have witnessed all things all at once to know for sure that is true
Bill, I don’t have to witness something to show something is true. I don’t have to witness a therapod dinosaur population group evolving over thousands of lifetimes and millions of years into the bird species we have today. I have genetics, morphology, paleontology, geology, among other sciences that have demonstrated positively without a shadow of a doubt that birds evolved from therapod dinosaurs. None of you apologists seem to grasp that just because something isn’t witnessed doesn’t mean evidence can’t demonstrate it really happened.
quote:
If your "reality" is true, then there is no point to anything, even believing "truth". All your worldview should lead to is Nihilism and apathy
Everything after the bolded part is moot. It’s not if. It is. The rest of your statement is your emotional conjecture.
quote:
You don't actually believe all morality is subjective.
Wrong.
quote:
If you did, you wouldn't judge the rapist and the murder. You wouldn't judge the child molester.
Well since there isn’t an objective standard which everyone in humanity can agree on, and since your deity doesn’t exist (but even if he did, your Bible doesn’t contain any objective standard, as in XYZ is always right and ABC is always wrong without contradictions), the only thing left is subjectivity.
In fact, the deities of your Bible allowed for killing of innocent babies (including Israelites), taking slaves to have as property forever, rape, and more atrocities, and you don’t like any of it and you personally wouldn’t keep slaves or rape anyone (I hope not) so you don’t follow the Bible but follow your own subjective standards.
Morality being subjective doesn’t stop me or anyone else for judging. Within subjective reality, there are social norms that most people agree with and adhere to. We judge based on those social norms, but the basis of such is that an action is morally good if it promotes happiness and wellbeing and/or minimizes unnecessary suffering. Now the only thing left is to subjectively decide how much happiness it takes to override suffering and what things promote wellbeing.
quote:
And no, I don't believe that God does anything evil.
It’s because you are allowing your dogma to override the logical part of your brain and make you stupid.
The first high priest, Aaron, threw the gold into the fire and out of it popped out the golden calf. Some Midrashes state that it was Yahweh that miraculously formed the calf. Sure Aaron threw the gold into the fire, “and out came this calf.” So Yahweh made the calf, and then the Israelites used the calf as an idol of Yahweh in their worship of Yahweh, and they had a feast in honor of Yahweh, stating that this calf represented the deity that had just rescued them from Egyptian slavery. So what did Yahweh do when Moses returned? Yahweh had them slaughter each other and when they slaughtered enough of each other, he then sent a “very great plague” to kill even more of the Israelites. Now ask yourself…
Did the act of Yahweh baiting the Israelites into “improper worship” of himself, and then making them kill each other, and then personally killing a shitload more of them… did that promote wellbeing? Did those actions minimize unnecessary suffering? No and no. Then those actions were EVIL. Fortunate for us is that that bloodthirsty deity doesn’t really exist and none of that shite ever really happened. And don’t say he’s not bloodthirsty, because he is… demanding blood sacrifices all the time… killing his own innocent son… it’s sick.
Stop and think just for once. Quit being a lying piece of shite and a troll.
You know damn good and well that “the universe and matter exists, therefore only the deity that I believe created it all could have created it all, therefore he did create it all” is a logical fallacy and is just plain idiotic.
re: A story of what suicidal empathy gets you
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/6/26 at 9:08 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
That's not an example of something baseless. It's founded upon the truth of Scripture
Baseless. You cannot objectively demonstrate that there is any truth in your scripture to any supernatural claims or stories.
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Just because you disagree or don't believe that the Scriptures are God's revelation does not mean that they aren't, and therefore, doesn't not mean that such truth is "baseless".
Let me flip that around on you. Just because you believe the scriptures are divinely revealed doesn’t mean they are. Real actual truth isn’t baseless. Your “Truth” is baseless, because you assert things that are not only impossible but have been proven to not have happened historically in actual reality.
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What you're saying--and what you seem to always be saying--is that if you don't personally agree with something, then it must not be true, and therefore has no basis in reality.
What I explain as to the falsehoods of your belief system are objective and verifiable by anyone.
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That seems to be the very sort of narrow thinking that you despise Christians for.
I don’t despise Christians. Many of my family and friends are Christians. It just bothers me, for their sake, that they believe in a false reality.
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Subjective morality is that which originates from the mind of people, based on individual thoughts, beliefs, feelings, or preferences
All morality is subjective. You wouldn’t even do things that “God” himself did (according to some ancient Iron Age scribe) because you believe those actions are evil.
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Objective morality is that which exists outside the human mind or experience, and relates to God who is infinite, eternal, and unchangeable.
Neither of these two exist, in reality.
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The verse in Ezekiel 18 is referring to judicial punishments for sin-crimes in the theocratic nation of Israel.
Nope, it is “God” who says he will judge each and every one of them. It is not human judgement of other humans. It is divine judgement. Ezekiel 18 is referred to punishments enacted by Yahweh for sins against Yahweh. Might want to check verse 30.
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God was not judging or condemning the child for the sins of his father.
You lying sack of shite.
I already posted the exact quote saying the child was killed (condemned) precisely for the sin of his father David. quote:
You really need to go back and take a course in basic philosophy or logic, or look at some Youtube videos or something. The law of non-contradiction isn't about merely opposing true claims, but opposing truth claims spoken in the same sense or relationship.
Yeah, like take nothing except a staff, and do not take a staff. You’re nothing but a troll, Foo. A very lazy liar.
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Could God have done those things "better"? No
Yes. Easily. He’s an a-hole. He could have hid the tree of knowledge. He could have not allowed the watchers to rape human women to make the Nephilim.
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God's plans are perfect
Yet, Moses had to negotiate with Yahweh to NOT genocide the entire Israelite population. Not because doing so would be wrong. No, it’s because the Egyptians will laugh at him saying he took the Israelites just so he could kill em. It’s right there in the bible if you’re interested.
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If anything exists, God must exist necessarily
Baseless assertion game! Let me try. Ostriches can’t fly, therefore they are not a bird.
quote:
It's also called the cosmological argument for God's existence.
FoolaneCraig, wouldn’t that be the same argument for Jupiter’s existence, or Ahura Mazda? Or Baal Hadad or Aten? Just stop and think. And quit lying.
re: A story of what suicidal empathy gets you
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/6/26 at 8:18 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
As an agnostic, you
Wrong
re: A story of what suicidal empathy gets you
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/6/26 at 1:50 pm to FooManChoo
quote:quote:You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
baseless assertions”
Let me give you an example…
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The only problem is that you don’t want to hear the truth, and you will be judged by God for your sins if you do not turn from them and embrace your savior, Jesus.
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the “law” isn’t objectiveYes, it is.
But what is “objective”?
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adjective - expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations
So no, the Torah isn’t objective. The Bible isn’t objective. It requires interpretation and fallacious assertions and dogma to decide what is what. Should God or humans punish sons for the sins of their father? There is no objectivity contained within the Bible, as God says to hold the son responsible for the sins of the father, while also saying he does not hold the son responsible for the sins of the father. Each person is responsible for their own sin. Each mean shall die for his own sin. But he killed may babies throughout the Bible for the sins of their fathers, and to this day you believe the sin of Adam is upon you - that you are guilty for Adam’s sin. You can expressed that sentiment countless times on here, in fact. But in Ezekiel, we have…
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The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Two opposing, opposite, conflicting statements cannot both be true simultaneously. There is no objectivity.
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perfect character of God
Don’t you think maybe God could’ve done things a little better? Maybe not put that forbidden tree with juicy fruit right in front of Adam and Eve who didn’t yet know right from wrong yet? Did he absolutely need to drown the whole earth in a flood? Maybe snap his fingers and vaporize just the bad people? Maybe he could have come up with a way to save all those innocent babies he slaughtered? Perfect, hardly. Any one of us could have done much better with godlike powers.
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God does exist necessarily.
Very good, another baseless assertion.
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There are many evidences of His existence.
Foo, you are so dumb.
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You just aren’t convinced by them because your mind is darkened and your heart is hardened
No, it’s because I’ve heard it all and read it all and perceived it all and made up my own mind. It’s a difference in personality, but not necessarily intellect. I am inquisitive and love to learn about science and the world around me. I have a desire to understand the truth of reality. Your desire is to have the wool pulled over your eyes. You would take the blue pill, while I’ll go red.
re: Blessed are those who end pregnancies?
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/6/26 at 6:56 am to Wednesday
quote:
This woman actually said that if Jesus were giving his sermon on the Mount today, he would have said “blessed are those who end pregnancies, for they will be remembered for their loving kindness.”
Maybe she has it in her mind Jesus is the dick portrayed in the gospel of Matthew when he doesn’t want to heal the Canaanite woman and insults her, and tells people he didn’t come to save anyone except the lost sheep of Israel. And maybe she knows the Bible and knows these other verses below?
Jesus divinely inspired this longing for revenge infanticide in psalm 137…
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8O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed, blessed shall he be who repays you with what you have done to us! 9Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!
And there’s the magic abortion potion of Numbers 5, to kill the baby if it was conceived by adultery…
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27And when he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has broken faith with her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall swell, and her womb shall miscarry, and the woman shall become a curse among her people.
And then there’s the message directly from Jesus to the church in Thyatira from Revelation 2…
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20But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. 21I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. 22Behold, I will throw her onto a bed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works, 23and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works.
Now I think abortion is killing of a child, which is appalling and disgusting and unfair to the child. Killing a child is morally wrong - I’d say evil - because killing that child does not promote wellbeing and happiness for the child. But for Jesus/God, they didn’t care about the wellbeing of children, and even often killed innocent children as punishment for the sin of the father, such as when God specifically killed David’s first child with Bathsheba to punish David. So Jesus/God’s characters in the Bible are evil. That’s how you get evil Presbyterian ministers, as they are following their interpretation of Jesus/God’s characters taken right out of the Bible.
re: Elon Musk makes $3 Billion more per year than every elementary school teacher in the U.S.
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/5/26 at 8:42 pm to HughsWorkPhone
quote:
Also they want EVs, he made one that works. They want to get people and material to space, he is providing them that for much less than it would cost them (tax $) to do themselves.
Imagine the corruption and waste and incompetence.
re: Illegal rapes 16 year old girl in her home?
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/5/26 at 8:38 pm to Dirk Dawgler
quote:
that demon squirrelbastard
quote:
Dirk Dawgler
re: A story of what suicidal empathy gets you
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/5/26 at 8:19 pm to FooManChoo
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What most people don’t realize is that if they reject an objective law-giver in God,
So many problems with this sentence.
-baseless assertions
-the “law” isn’t objective
-your deity “God” does not exist in reality
re: Illegal rapes 16 year old girl in her home?
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/5/26 at 8:17 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The moral standard is that rape is immoral. God judged David for his sin of rape and murder. You are confusing the punishment with the crime. Just because David wasn’t put to death for his sin doesn’t mean what he did wasn’t sin according to God’s objective standard.
Yet “God” killed David’s son due to David’s sin, which “God” promised he would not do in Ezekiel 18:20, Deuteronomy 24:16, and Jeremiah 31:29-30.
And for someone to NOT punish someone for breaking the law, that would in fact be breaking the law, the covenant with Yahweh. So morality and judgment and punishment are intertwined.
When David raped Bathsheba, the crime wasn’t against Bathsheba. It was against Uriah the Hittite for violating his personal property. Men could have sex with any woman he chose, as long as the woman wasn’t married to another Israelite. Any woman the man violated was fine as long as he paid the father the bride price. Read the Bible, Foo.
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The decree that the child shall not die because of the sin of the parent is referring to judicial guilt in human courts.
You should read the Bible. In the verses I referenced, it is Yahweh doing the judging, not human courts. You made that up, as usual.
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God did not hold David’s child morally responsible for David’s sins
quote:
13David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” And Nathan said to David, “The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the LORD, the child who is born to you shall die.” 15Then Nathan went to his house.
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He was not guilty of David’s sin and judged so in a human court
It’s like you are getting even more retarded.
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David believed in going to be with God after death, and he specifically said that his son will not return to him, but that he would go to be with his son (in Heaven).
Finally, you put in parentheses the part not in evidence that you made up. Keep doing that. Honesty weight earn you some respect.
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Historically, Christians have understood Luke’s genealogy as being Mary’s
Early apologists had to attempt to rationalize the contradiction. There are more in those genealogies. Joseph is both the son of Heli and of Jacob. Joseph is of the lineage of Solomon in one and Nathan in the other (two different sons of David). There are many more actually just in the genealogies.
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The “seed” language speaks to lineage, not physical sperm, as your weird belief states.
Weird as compared to common thought, maybe. But it’s based on evidence. The Ascension (Vision) of Isaiah may have been part of or maybe even “the” scriptures referenced by him in 1 Corinthians as to the “fact” that Jesus had died and was resurrected, and that early Christian scripture matches Paul’s “gospel” message to the highest degree. And in that scripture, Elyon literally manufactured a fleshly body created from the sperm of David to give to Yahweh to go down to the lowest heaven to be crucified by the leader of the archons of this aeon. None of the archons would’ve done that had they known who he was. It was a secret plan. (Vision of Isaiah plus 1 Corinthians 2)
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I don’t know why you keep pretending to be neutral when you always take the ahistorical and least generous position
Only one of us takes the historical position, and it ain’t you!
quote:
It’s almost as if you want the Bible to be contradictory rather than accept plausible explanations as to why a contradiction doesn’t exist.
I neither want nor don’t want it to be contradictory. I do want to understand the truth of our reality, unlike you. It’s not good enough for me to make up unlikely and nearly impossible things which are not in evidence to explain contradictions. That’s not satisfying to me. I’d rather know and understand what is most likely or proven beyond a doubt.
You’d be in good company with Jaire-Weaver.
re: A story of what suicidal empathy gets you
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/4/26 at 12:35 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Not at all, because everyone recognizes that how something tastes and one's preference for it is entirely subjective. Some people are grossed out by the taste of broccoli while others love it. Some love animals brains or intestines while others want to throw up at the taste. Many enjoy the taste of alcohol while others abhor it. There are many acquired tastes in this life, but you're touching on personal preferences that differ from person to person. There is no objective source for what good food tastes like that you can use to judge all cuisine. That's the sort of thing you are promoting in morality when you reject God as the objective source for moral reasoning. You reduce rape and murder down to preferences.
Next time someone says “this XYZ food is sooo goooddd!” You be sure to tell them that nothing is good because good is undefined because there is no objective standard for good food.
quote:
Ah yes. The ad hominem attack
re: Illegal rapes 16 year old girl in her home?
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/4/26 at 12:31 am to FooManChoo
quote:
That’s not how God does it.He is free to pardon sin as He pleases. Humans are not God. When a person is convicted of rape in human courts, capital punishment should be on the table.
So you reject your “objective moral standard”.
What a maroon!
quote:
The baby was not murdered. God is legally free to do with His creation as He sees fit, including ending our lives. He cannot murder because there is no way for Him to illegally take a life.
But God said he will punish the innocent for the sins of their father. But then in another book he says the sins shouldn’t pay for the sins of the father. But right there with David’s son, he punished the son by making him ill and then killing him a week later. There’s your “objective moral standard”, idiot.
quote:
The child died
Because God killed him to pay for the sins of his father…
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and went to Heaven
Except it doesn’t say that. You made that up.
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You don’t learn, do you? The “seed” is a euphemism for progeny. Jesus wasn’t made from David’s sperm, but was born of a woman from the genetic lineage of David
Except the gospels of Matthew and Luke have their lineages from David to Joseph, not to Mary. Quit making shite up dude - you suck at it.
quote:
Paul uses the same language for the descendants of Abraham. It’s a simple concept.
Alright, if it’s a concept of direct lineage, when Paul says all the gentiles will be sons of Abraham, and also sons of God, are gentile Christian’s direct genetic sons of Abraham and God? We know the answer.
quote:
David did kill Goliath
And so did El Hanan in 2 Samuel. Scholars believe this was the earlier story. They both killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam. The author is attempting to describe a Greek throwing spear… the kind that would have a string wrapped around the shaft attached to the throwers hand so that we he threw the spear, it would spiral like a football giving greater distance and accuracy on target. It’s the kind Achilles used in Homer’s epic.
quote:
Hanna killed Lahmi, the brother of Goliath (1 Chronicles 20:5)
The Levite chronicler attempted to correct a contradiction. He took “bethlehemite” and turned into “brother” and “Lahmi”. But did you notice anything else? The chronicler was copying and redacting the story in 2 Samuel. The writer of 2 Samuel calls El Hanan the son of Jair-oregim, while the chronicler just calls him El Hanan son of Jair. Why’d he leave out “oregim”? It’s because that word means “weaver” you dolt. He literally wrote that El Hanan son of Jair-weaver killed Goliath, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam. Obviously this was simply a scribal error, but with all the scribal errors, we don’t even know which versions were more original than others.
I want to reiterate:
And you are a
re: Illegal rapes 16 year old girl in her home?
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/3/26 at 7:19 pm to the808bass
quote:
What drugs you takin today?
You must’ve never read through the Bible if you don’t know what I’m talking about.
re: Illegal rapes 16 year old girl in her home?
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/3/26 at 7:11 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I'm strongly in favor of the death penalty as a punishment for rape.
That’s not how God does it. What he does is he takes the child born out of the rape and makes the child suffer for days and then murders the baby to make the son suffer for the sin of the father. See David’s rape of Bathsheba, the same David from whose sperm was crafted into Jesus’ body - the same David who did not kill Goliath (that was El Hanan, before a later scribe crafted a story out of his imagination that attributed the task to David.
re: It is illegal to carry a gun in Washington DC
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/2/26 at 3:24 pm to SneezyBeltranIsHere
quote:
It is illegal to carry a gun in Washington DC
We need criminal and civil penalties targeting individuals personally who are elected officials and appointed positions (judges) for knowingly and willfully breaking constitutional law as the constitution is written. 95% of politicians and judges would go to jail on this including Trump. They aren’t stupid. They can read the second amendment. They just don’t give a frick.
re: A story of what suicidal empathy gets you
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/2/26 at 12:12 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Ah yes, “everything about Christianity is lifted from another religion”.
Modern Christianity is a combination of earlier Nicene Christianity with Platonism. Nicene Christianity was about the future judgement and resurrection of the dead… the dead were “asleep” awaiting the resurrection and would go up to meet Jesus who would be coming down from heaven. When Jesus hadn’t returned, they took the concept of the soul from Platonism and now tell people grandma’s soul is in heaven forever and they forget about the ending of the Nicene creed.
Nicene Christianity is itself a mishmash of several versions of early Christianity with but mostly of a version of Christianity that believed Jesus was a real human who died on earth crucified under Pontius Pilate that superseded the other and earlier versions of Christianity that believed Jesus was supernatural being who was crucified/sacrificed in heaven (1 Corinthians, Hebrews).
That Pauline Christianity was an offshoot of the original Jewish Christianity which was an offshoot of Enochian Judaism plus eastern Mediterranean and Egyptian mystery cults. Enochian Judaism (such as what the Essenes practiced) was a mishmash of first temple Judaism and early second temple Judaism. First temple Judaism was pure Canaanite polytheism plus the Shasu/Edomite religion with an emphasis on Yahweh being their patron deity. Early second temple Judaism was a combination of first temple Judaism with a heavy dose of Zoroastrianism (heaven and hell, future judgement of the living and the dead, resurrection).
Genesis chapter two: man is called “Adam” which is the same exact word as “Edom”. Hebrew didn’t have vowels. The Genesis 2 story was adapted from Edomite myths. Yahweh was said to come from northwest Arabia or Seir or Edom. The first temple cult adopted Yahweh from the south and conflated Yahweh with Baal Hadad and later on in the second temple period some conflated Yahweh with his father El Elyon.
And Canaanite religion and Mesopotamian religion share an origin. In Deuteronomy 34, Yahweh shows Moses the promise land from the top of Mount Nebo… named after the deity Nebo from earlier Canaanite religion. The Babylonian king who destroyed Judah was named after the deity Nebo… you would know him as Nebuchadnezzar.
There are parallels with Jesus and all the parallel and earlier religions. Justin Martyr says as much to the Roman emperor and senate in his first apology. Elements of the Sumerian religion of Innana made its way into Christianity. It’s not a surprise how a fatherly figure named B-R-H-M both in Hindu Sanskrit language and in Semitic languages gave rise to “Abraham” and “Brahma”.
quote:
Our bodies return to the ground like all other creatures. Our souls go somewhere else. You know this is what the Bible teaches.
The Bible teaches nothing. It’s just a collection of ancient writings by different authors with different theologies and different goals - a collection created by men with the intention of deciding which scriptures are authoritative and which aren’t. The reader gives it meaning, like you do when you pick and choose what you will accept and which parts you will reject. For much of “the Bible”, the dead go to Sheol, forever, and are unconscious/sleeping. The concept of the soul is directly pulled from Greek Platonism.
quote:
5For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. 6Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. 7Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.
8Let your garments be always white. Let not oil be lacking on your head.
9Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your vainb life that he has given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which you toil under the sun. 10Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.
quote:
17The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence.
quote:
Not baseless.
Everything you assert is baseless and fallacious.
quote:
You have no reference point for evil in your wicked worldview.
I imagine you sitting next to someone saying, “man that chicken tastes like shite” and your reply being “you have no basis to say that if you’ve never eaten shite. There is no good taste nor any bad taste unless you have an objective reference to understand what good and bad tastes like.”
You’re a fricking idiot.
re: Cory Booker: ‘want to know where Jesus would be today? With the Gay kids, the trans kids’
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/2/26 at 6:41 am to AlterEd
quote:
Jesus never spoke of homosexuality. Homosexuality did exist in his time.
What about his sermon on the Mount where he instructed the people they must follow every dot and iota of the Mosaic covenant until heaven and earth are destroyed and rebuilt? I think the Torah has a few things in there about homosexuality, like stoning those who practice it.
quote:
Jesus was also very smart. Were he alive today he would see that kids are being indoctrinated into this perverted trans ideology.
Don’t Christians consider Jesus to have been resurrected and ascended into heaven, now seated at the right hand of power? I think he’s considered to be “alive” and “omnipotent”. What’s stopping him from saving kids today from the perverted ideology????
quote:
He would show compassion for said children
I don’t know. Jesus himself has no problem with killing innocent babies to punish the sinful parents.
quote:
righteous anger for the people behind the phenomenon.
You know what really pisses Jesus off? Idolatry. He is a jealous deity. He even says his name is Jealous.
re: Cory Booker: ‘want to know where Jesus would be today? With the Gay kids, the trans kids’
Posted by Squirrelmeister on 2/1/26 at 7:57 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
want to know where Jesus would be today? With the Gay kids, the trans kids
If Jesus would’ve returned in the lifetime of his apostles, like he promised in the gospels, we wouldn’t have ever gotten to this point of children being mutilated.
But if the gospel Jesus existed today, he would be with the sinners of all kinds. If the Revelation version of Jesus existed today, he’d be slaughtering all the sinners and unrighteous, carving them up with his sickle, and striking them dead and murdering babies of sinners.
But it’s all irrelevant since Jesus is a mythical, non-historical invention.
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