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Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:41 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
hildren are universally understood to be innocent. We even treat ISIS children wearing suicide vests as innocents
Please, for the love of GOD and all that is holy, someone read the part about the children in the OP
The jump to conclusions crowd has shown up and ruined a perfectly good discussion by not even reading and trying to comprehend my argument. It's all about quick reaction without reading.
So...later folks. The utility of this thread has been destroyed.
ETA: my thanks to beesnax for the interesting conversation
This post was edited on 2/9/17 at 5:43 am
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:43 am to SherluckHomey
quote:
I can't understand
quote:
children being burned by their parents is definitely a tragedy
Well apparently you were able to figure it out.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:45 am to SherluckHomey
quote:
So...later folks. The utility of this thread has been destroyed.
i.e., oops, people are piling on, gotta go.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:45 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
So you know for sure that every man, woman and child at the compound knew exactly beforehand what their fate would be if they had a faceoff with the law?
I don't know if they discussed it at the toolbox meeting that day, but they committed suicide so they had some idea of what they were doing. Koresh didn't spread the gas over the entire building. His followers did. I wouldn't argue that they didn't know what was about to happen because to suggest that they didn't understand that the place was about to go up in a blaze of glory would be rediculous.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:46 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
i.e., oops, people are piling on, gotta go
Call it what you will but when people respond without even reading the thread it gets to be useless like trying to lead the retarded to a library.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:47 am to SherluckHomey
quote:
Am I missing something?
Well you were ignorant of the death toll as well as most of the basic facts so I would unequivocally say you are missing something.
Not sure if you are just young and ignorant or a just bad troll.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:51 am to SherluckHomey
The children dying is the tragedy. No one cares about koresh or his direct, willing followers. Incompetence of the govt directly led to their death. Women and children would be alive today if the simply grabbed him away from home. And to be fair, this tragedy is played out on a regular basis in America through no-knock warrants. It puts the criminals families and the LEOs in danger.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:52 am to SherluckHomey
76 people died in one incident. Any loss of that much human life at once is a tragedy no matter what the situation was. Yes there were misguided people there. When we become a society that says, eh screw just kill em, we lose our civility. Why do you hate people
21 of them under the age of 18. Kids children who could have good lives ahead of them. Holy crap how do you shrug this off as eh whatever.
of those 21 kids 15 were under the age of 10.
of those 15 kids 10 were under the age of 5
And all of this could have been prevented very easily by our government who is supposed to protect us.
Are you a Sociopath Holy crap.
21 of them under the age of 18. Kids children who could have good lives ahead of them. Holy crap how do you shrug this off as eh whatever.
of those 21 kids 15 were under the age of 10.
of those 15 kids 10 were under the age of 5
And all of this could have been prevented very easily by our government who is supposed to protect us.
Are you a Sociopath Holy crap.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:54 am to SherluckHomey
quote:
I see that Koresh manipulated the situation so that his apocalyptic predictions came true, but in the grand scheme of things he is a footnote in the history books. I don't believe in an afterlife so for me the outcome of the standoff was a tidy ending to a complicated situation.
Good for you, CTR #763
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:54 am to mindbreaker
quote:
Are you a Sociopath Holy crap.
And/or paid troll.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:56 am to SherluckHomey
quote:
I don't see it as a failure of the FBI or Janet Reno. The sexual abuse of children cannot be allowed to continue. The fact that a child rapist burned himself doesn't even register on my tragedy radar.
Was an epic frick up by the FBI ,because Reno wanted to prove she had the biggest dick in the room. Koresh was a piece of shite no doubt ,but driving on to ranch in cattle cars underestimating how armed these people were gave Koresh the war with the Federal Government he wanted.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:59 am to SherluckHomey
quote:
Am I missing something?
Yeah. Those people were targeted because they were religious and armed. The deaths of the children lay squarely at the feet of Clinton, Reno, the ATF and the FBI.
Now - Koresh is an unsympathetic figure, as are most of his adult followers. But even unsympathetic figures are afforded due process under our system.
The absolute worst part is that part of the cult's beliefs were that the federal government was going to show up and kill them for their beliefs - the hamfisted actions of the authorities (remember, the authorities act on our behalf, they were doing this in our name) literally made Koresh die a prophet to those who died with him.
That's why it's a tragedy.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 6:01 am to mindbreaker
quote:
Any loss of that much human life at once is a tragedy no matter what the situation was
So would the death of 76 Natzis be considered tragic? What a simple argument you have put forth.
quote:
of those 21 kids 15 were under the age of 10.
One day someone is going to read the OP and submit a reasonable response. I won't hold my breath
Posted on 2/9/17 at 6:02 am to SherluckHomey
quote:
I wouldn't describe these people as innocent.
The children weren't innocent?
quote:
But they were complicit in horrible crimes.
Largely unproven ones. Do you believe in any sort of due process?
Posted on 2/9/17 at 6:03 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Now - Koresh is an unsympathetic figure, as are most of his adult followers. But even unsympathetic figures are afforded due process under our system
I whole-heartedly agree but this was a suicide. Doesn't that enter into the equation? I've argued multiple times that a criminal committing suicide isn't a tragedy. Is this objectionable?
Posted on 2/9/17 at 6:04 am to SherluckHomey
quote:
I can't understand why the incident in Waco (David Koresh) is a tragedy
quote:
Don't get me wrong, the children being burned by their parents is definitely a tragedy,
/Thread
Posted on 2/9/17 at 6:04 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
The children weren't innocent
Read the OP. Read the OP. Read the OP.
WILL SOMEONE READ THE OP?!
Posted on 2/9/17 at 6:04 am to Strannix
quote:
It was a tragedy mishandled by keystone cop Feds and our murderer in chief Janet Reno
The raid was ham handed, and as mentioned, people closer to the situation say Koresh could have been snatched up in town. But weren't federal officers killed in that initial raid? I can't recall a number, but everybody saw those images of the FBI or ATF agents pinned on the roof as the window they are taking cover under slowly gets chipped away by bullets.
The feds lost people, got pissed, and doubled and tripled down. I guess they called the bluff of the Davidians. Probably thinking there was some decency in the parents, and when the rolled a tank in there, they would give up and save their children. Perhaps they questioned whether there were explosives in the camp? They were wrong on all counts. Those people were willing to die and willing to let their kids go with them.
Remember also, how long and drawn out this was. This was nightly news for what? Weeks? Months? Music blaring. Flood lighting at night. The news and public sentiment were to end this. People never fully grasped what ending this could mean.
Kids dying = Tragedy
Brainwashed idiots dying = tragedy.
People burning alive = tragedy.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 6:07 am to SherluckHomey
quote:
I whole-heartedly agree but this was a suicide. Doesn't that enter into the equation?
I don't mourn the loss of Koresh, if that's what you're asking. It doesn't excuse the deaths of the children - largely the responsibility of the federal authorities.
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