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re: I asked ChatGPT to tell me when Palestine existed. It gave an honest answer, shockingly
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:17 am to davyjones
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:17 am to davyjones
quote:
You said yourself that you expected a politicized response
From ChatGPT
quote:
I’d assert that it pretty much exclusively falls under the category of history or some sub-category(s) falling under the topic of history in a broader sense.
That is irrelevant to woke curation attempts
1
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:18 am to AllbyMyRelf
quote:
No reason to become hysterical and claim that people want genocide. Palestine was never a country, and the people known as Palestinians are not a separate ethnic group from Arabs. Saying this does not mean people want to kill all the Palestinians, no matter how much you want to infer it.
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:21 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's referenced as a country in the conflict and one side of this perpetual conflict claims historical rights to this country that never existed.
I'm sure someone somewhere has used the word "country" but I've mostly seen it called "land."
quote:
How can you "free" Palestine when it has never existed.
the Palestinian people certainly can be freed. Do you realize they have to pass through checkpoints just to move about cities? And this has been happening long before the current conflict. Their utilities have been rations, houses razed. If Palestinian people can't be or don't need to be freed, why are they forced to attend segregated schools? Why can't Palestinian people be granted Israeli citizenship?
My friend who is Palestinian, from Jerusalem, has a Jordanian passport because Israel refuses to issue passports to Palestinians.
This post was edited on 9/27/24 at 9:22 am
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:23 am to 4cubbies
quote:
the Palestinian people certainly can be freed.
Sure, but that's not what we're talking about. We are talking about states, not nations/people
That's also what most pro Palestinian people are not talking about. They want a state not a nation
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I asked ChatGPT to tell me when Palestine existed. It gave an honest answer, shockingly
SlowFlowPro
That "80 year old map of Palestine" is a map of the British empire, my dude.
See #6 in OP
Perhaps he should transfer to Michigan State because the World History education he is taking at Michigan is terrible.
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:quote:
The West is meddling in Israel and funding efforts to terrorize Palestinians, which is why the West is relevant to this discussion.
This has nothing to do with this
quote:
Many ethnic groups haven't subscribed to Western ideas of violently occupying lands to form nation states
Which is what you said.
Palestinians have been terrorized by Israel for decades before the Hamas resorted to violent retaliation. That's why I mentioned that. Palestinians were attempting to peacefully exist in Israel but were denied that peaceful existence.
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:28 am to SlowFlowPro
You want discussion limited to whether or not the country of Palestine ever existed?
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:33 am to 4cubbies
[
The checkpoints in the West Bank are part of Israel's security measures, which were intensified during the Second Intifada due to security concerns following numerous suicide bombings and attacks inside Israel.
Education in Israel and the Palestinian territories is largely segregated due to several factors:
(1) Both Jewish and Palestinian communities often prefer education systems that reflect their language, culture, and narrative.
(2) The physical separation between Jewish settlements/Israeli cities and Palestinian towns leads to de facto educational segregation.
(3) There are different curricula for Israeli schools and those in Palestinian areas, reflecting different national narratives.
Israel annexed East Jerusalem after the 1967 Six-Day War, but the Palestinian residents were given permanent residency status rather than citizenship. They can apply for Israeli citizenship, but many choose not to for political reasons as many do not recognize the State of Israel. Those with only residency status can't vote in Israeli national elections because they voted to be under the authority of the PLA which governs the Westbank. The annexation of East Jerusalem has not been recognized internationally, and thus, the automatic granting of citizenship could be seen as furthering an annexation that most of the international community considers illegal under international law. However, Israel applies its law there, navigating this by offering residency rather than automatic citizenship. Plus the offering citizenship might be interpreted as a tacit acceptance of Palestinian demands or rights to the land, which could have implications for negotiations and international law.
Before the Oslo Accords, Jordan administered the West Bank and issued passports to Palestinians. Post-Oslo, while the Palestinian Authority issues travel documents, some Palestinians retain Jordanian passports for various practical or political reasons, especially since not all countries recognize Palestinian travel documents.
quote:
the Palestinian people certainly can be freed. Do you realize they have to pass through checkpoints just to move about cities? And this has been happening long before the current conflict. Their utilities have been rations, houses razed. If Palestinian people can't be or don't need to be freed, why are they forced to attend segregated schools? Why can't Palestinian people be granted Israeli citizenship?
My friend who is Palestinian, from Jerusalem, has a Jordanian passport because Israel refuses to issue passports to Palestinians.
The checkpoints in the West Bank are part of Israel's security measures, which were intensified during the Second Intifada due to security concerns following numerous suicide bombings and attacks inside Israel.
Education in Israel and the Palestinian territories is largely segregated due to several factors:
(1) Both Jewish and Palestinian communities often prefer education systems that reflect their language, culture, and narrative.
(2) The physical separation between Jewish settlements/Israeli cities and Palestinian towns leads to de facto educational segregation.
(3) There are different curricula for Israeli schools and those in Palestinian areas, reflecting different national narratives.
Israel annexed East Jerusalem after the 1967 Six-Day War, but the Palestinian residents were given permanent residency status rather than citizenship. They can apply for Israeli citizenship, but many choose not to for political reasons as many do not recognize the State of Israel. Those with only residency status can't vote in Israeli national elections because they voted to be under the authority of the PLA which governs the Westbank. The annexation of East Jerusalem has not been recognized internationally, and thus, the automatic granting of citizenship could be seen as furthering an annexation that most of the international community considers illegal under international law. However, Israel applies its law there, navigating this by offering residency rather than automatic citizenship. Plus the offering citizenship might be interpreted as a tacit acceptance of Palestinian demands or rights to the land, which could have implications for negotiations and international law.
Before the Oslo Accords, Jordan administered the West Bank and issued passports to Palestinians. Post-Oslo, while the Palestinian Authority issues travel documents, some Palestinians retain Jordanian passports for various practical or political reasons, especially since not all countries recognize Palestinian travel documents.
This post was edited on 9/27/24 at 9:35 am
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:33 am to SlowFlowPro
You ever heard of a “tryhard?” You’re a textbook example of a tryhard.
Tryharder
Tryharder
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:45 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Palestinians have been terrorized by Israel for decades before the Hamas resorted to violent retaliation. That's why I mentioned that. Palestinians were attempting to peacefully exist in Israel but were denied that peaceful existence.
Gaza was largely a majority Christian population (75% in 2007 was Christian) but today because of Hamas governance the Christian population is now less than 1% (less than 1000) because of the less tolerant environment of religious minorities.
The West Bank decline is similar. Bethlehem for example was a majority Christian population and today its now a very small minority.
Posted on 9/27/24 at 9:54 am to 4cubbies
quote:
You're just perpetuating this colonizer perspective of "It's only your land if you kill all the previous inhabitants and stab the ground with your colorful fabric."
The way of the world since the beginning of time.
Posted on 9/27/24 at 10:45 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Neither was Inuit. Do you also preach the nonexistence of Inuit people?
Is there a country called Inuit?
ETA: Yeah, that's what I thought
This post was edited on 9/27/24 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 9/27/24 at 12:51 pm to oldskule
There is no such place as Palestine
Posted on 9/27/24 at 1:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
I typed your question into Claude and this is what it responded:
quote:
Over the last 2000 years, how often have the Palestinian people ruled autonomously within the current geographical boundaries of Israel?
To answer this question accurately, we need to carefully consider the historical context and definitions:
The term "Palestinian people" as a distinct national identity is a relatively modern concept, emerging primarily in the 20th century. Before that, the inhabitants of the region were generally identified by their religious or ethnic backgrounds (e.g., Arab, Jewish, Druze) rather than as a unified "Palestinian" people.
The "current geographical boundaries of Israel" have only existed since 1948, with some changes following the 1967 Six-Day War.
The concept of "autonomous rule" can be interpreted in various ways, from full independence to partial self-governance under a larger empire or mandate.
Given these considerations, here's an overview of periods when Arab populations (which would include ancestors of many modern Palestinians) had some form of autonomous rule in the region:
636-1099 CE: After the Arab conquest, the region was ruled by various Arab caliphates. While not specifically "Palestinian," this period saw Arab Muslim rule over the area.
1830s-1840: A brief period of de facto autonomy under Muhammad Ali of Egypt, though still nominally part of the Ottoman Empire.
1920-1948: During the British Mandate period, there was limited Arab self-governance in some local affairs, though ultimate authority rested with the British.
1948-present: In the West Bank and Gaza Strip, there have been varying degrees of Palestinian self-rule, especially since the Oslo Accords in the 1990s, though full sovereignty has not been achieved.
It's important to note that throughout most of the last 2000 years, the region was part of larger empires (Roman, Byzantine, various Islamic caliphates, Crusader states, Mamluk, Ottoman) where local populations had varying degrees of autonomy but were not fully self-governing.
In summary, periods of full autonomous rule by a distinctly "Palestinian" entity within the current borders of Israel have been very limited over the past 2000 years. However, there have been periods of partial autonomy and self-governance, particularly in the modern era.
This post was edited on 9/27/24 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 9/27/24 at 1:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 9/27/24 at 1:21 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 9/27/24 at 1:35 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Why mention that Palestine hasn't existed as a country? So what?
The gays have never existed as a country before and they're not normally even trying to kill us. But I don't see us carving a country out for them anywhere. Why a hate group in Israel?
Posted on 9/27/24 at 1:43 pm to oldskule
quote:It's not a country. It is an area.
Palestine has never been a real country.
It's an area like the Ozarks or Upper Peninsula. It will always be attached to one or more real political entities, thus may have some degree of autonomy but not independence of that entity.
Posted on 9/27/24 at 1:56 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
This has always been the dumbest reason used to justify a modern military force attacking unarmed civilians. Just be honest and say you hate them.
October 7 2023
Posted on 9/27/24 at 2:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
Hmmm... Didn't we have an in depth discussion quite a while back when you took umbrage with my statement that there is no such country as Palestine?
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