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re: How Free Trade Took Down the American Middle Class
Posted on 3/23/25 at 4:43 pm to RiverCityTider
Posted on 3/23/25 at 4:43 pm to RiverCityTider
In hindsight it seems like an obvious bad decision. Also seems that although less dramatic, this decision has had a bigger negative impact than the COVID stuff and Obama care.
What entity was pushing for NAFTA?
What entity was pushing for NAFTA?
Posted on 3/23/25 at 4:43 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
There is a huge demand for skilled labor in this country.
Like what, exactly?
Posted on 3/23/25 at 4:59 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
I’m glad you are admitting you oppose free markets, a system of resource distribution where individuals engage in voluntary transactions with other individuals
I'm against the US economy being used to improve the lot of the billions of people in other countries while lowering the standard of living for US residents.
And throwing out the "free market" trope is laughable as it has been shown repeatedly the only free trade that has been going on for decades is one way.
People like you only see $200 TVs and think it's great while not understanding that for the guy now making half what he would have 50 years ago, it is not a net gain when looking at his entire cost of living.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:00 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
I view the world as a place where people are producers of goods and consumers of goods.
You just described yourself as a globalist.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:00 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Average wages are 40% higher today -- adjusted for inflation -- than they were in 1971.
Do median not average.
In 1970, around 81k in today's dollars.Today still around $80k. Wages are flat.
Home prices have more than doubled the rate of inflation. College tuition costs (the second most significant purchase you will make) have more than tripled the rate of inflation. Average new car price in 1970 was $24k in today's dollars. Today its around $49k or double the rate of inflation
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The days of lower-level manufacturing paying top wages are over, but there are plenty of avenues for people to be middle class. It's just not quite as easy.
And that’s the fricking point you twerp.
Someone that has the initiative to put in 40-60 hours a week, work overtime, and build something with his hands should absolutely be able to support his family on a middle class way of life.
What the frick kind of world view do you have? Seriously.
The pretentiousness it takes to even utter that bullshite you just said is astounding and you are completely unaware.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:10 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
That was the American middle class back then
No, it wasn't, and because the pst started out with this lie, I stopped reading right then.
A factory job did NOT buy a family in 1970 a "big house," and "two shiny cars."
That's just a lie.
I was around then. Both my parents worked and we didn't have that in the 70s.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:11 pm to dnm3305
quote:
The days of lower-level manufacturing paying top wages are over, but there are plenty of avenues for people to be middle class. It's just not quite as easy.
And that’s the fricking point you twerp.
It's funny how so few can see beyond what is exactly in front of them. Complete tunnel vision.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:14 pm to wackatimesthree
on one income you can still match your grandfather's 1,000 sq ft house with no AC or technology, own 10 outfits, go out to eat 1/month, never fly, maybe own one gas guzzler, etc.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:15 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
No, it wasn't, and because the pst started out with this lie, I stopped reading right then.
A factory job did NOT buy a family in 1970 a "big house," and "two shiny cars."
That's just a lie.
The article takes some unnecessary liberties, but the overall message is correct.
The two cars claim is refuted with the stats provided right in the article. Less than 50%.
Just look at houses with single car garages versus two car. Around here two car garages in new construction were not common until the late 70s.
eta-Your family not living well is simply anecdotal. Even in 1970 there were poor people living below the standards of the middle class. The difference is the middle class was much larger.
This post was edited on 3/23/25 at 5:27 pm
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:22 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I disagree with your premise and your data.
The devil is always in the details and I can think of numerous reasons why your data could be in error, but you are happy to look at this one graph that supports your point of view.
As someone that worked in manufacturing in the US for over 20 years in the 80’s and 90’s I have no doubt that NAFTA screwed the US middle class. The ability to have money for real permanent things like home ownership (not $10 shirts) was taken away from the middle class and split between China and business owners and fat cats that were eager to fill their pockets with the value that used to go to Americans.
The devil is always in the details and I can think of numerous reasons why your data could be in error, but you are happy to look at this one graph that supports your point of view.
As someone that worked in manufacturing in the US for over 20 years in the 80’s and 90’s I have no doubt that NAFTA screwed the US middle class. The ability to have money for real permanent things like home ownership (not $10 shirts) was taken away from the middle class and split between China and business owners and fat cats that were eager to fill their pockets with the value that used to go to Americans.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:22 pm to RiverCityTider
Good points, and I agree. I will say that I think some other things played a factor.
Women fighting to join the workforce really didn't help, I think that is what is driving the price of everything to go up. Also they were probably building new neighborhoods that were easy to keep safe and nice back then. Now you have homeless people that are just allowed to meander wherever they want and low income housing thrown into every area. This is fine on a humanitarian level, but what it really does it make the crime free areas more expensive. And obviously people want to live in the nicest area. The country also subsidizes way too much of the lower class. This does not help them get out of poverty, it just keeps them there because it's easy and then they get shackled with children.
The government meddled in all of these affairs and created this stick built economy. They are saved the hard working American innovation and ingenuity. This problem will not fix itself, the working class is too lazy to work and the upper class will get wealthy beyond imagination, leaving the middle class further behind in the dust. If the government had done what we actually need it to do (fight monopolies), and stayed out of all of these other issues, we would be in a much better place. In a wealthy country, the main source of unhappiness is comparing lifestyle to another. Wealth inequality is the biggest issue in the country right now.
Women fighting to join the workforce really didn't help, I think that is what is driving the price of everything to go up. Also they were probably building new neighborhoods that were easy to keep safe and nice back then. Now you have homeless people that are just allowed to meander wherever they want and low income housing thrown into every area. This is fine on a humanitarian level, but what it really does it make the crime free areas more expensive. And obviously people want to live in the nicest area. The country also subsidizes way too much of the lower class. This does not help them get out of poverty, it just keeps them there because it's easy and then they get shackled with children.
The government meddled in all of these affairs and created this stick built economy. They are saved the hard working American innovation and ingenuity. This problem will not fix itself, the working class is too lazy to work and the upper class will get wealthy beyond imagination, leaving the middle class further behind in the dust. If the government had done what we actually need it to do (fight monopolies), and stayed out of all of these other issues, we would be in a much better place. In a wealthy country, the main source of unhappiness is comparing lifestyle to another. Wealth inequality is the biggest issue in the country right now.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:30 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
What you are not considering is while wages are up even when adjusting the overall cost of living jump when compared with the 1970’s after adjustment. Things like cars, food, insurance, property taxes not forgetting the American dream of owning a home
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:32 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:garages weren't even that much of a thing. Most around where I lived had carports
Around here two car garages in new construction were not common until the late 70s.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:42 pm to UncleFestersLegs
Garages were more common in Wisconsin for obvious reasons.
Older homes often had newer detached single car garages built in the back yard. Many have been replaced with two car garages in their place.
Older homes often had newer detached single car garages built in the back yard. Many have been replaced with two car garages in their place.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:45 pm to RiverCityTider
The strength of the middle class is what made America prosperous and the most powerful country on earth. We were able to outspend the soviets because of the wealth created by the middle class.
The "true conservatives" are fools blinded by their own moral superiority. They follow their "principles" despite the real world outcomes. Like the leftists who follow their belief in affirmative action even though it hurts black students when they can't keep up, the "true conservatives" will complain about the social structure crumbling without realizing that their zombie-like devotion to their ideology contributed to it. Instead of analyzing the results, they will insist that continuing to follow their ideology is the only way to solve the problem exacerbated by following their ideology.
This is why America First is the superior belief system for our country. We don't have to worry about hurting our country when we do "the right thing," because doing the right thing would always be what's best for America.
The "true conservatives" are fools blinded by their own moral superiority. They follow their "principles" despite the real world outcomes. Like the leftists who follow their belief in affirmative action even though it hurts black students when they can't keep up, the "true conservatives" will complain about the social structure crumbling without realizing that their zombie-like devotion to their ideology contributed to it. Instead of analyzing the results, they will insist that continuing to follow their ideology is the only way to solve the problem exacerbated by following their ideology.
This is why America First is the superior belief system for our country. We don't have to worry about hurting our country when we do "the right thing," because doing the right thing would always be what's best for America.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:49 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
No, it wasn't, and because the pst started out with this lie, I stopped reading right then.
A factory job did NOT buy a family in 1970 a "big house," and "two shiny cars."
That's just a lie.
Well this is just false. Men with high school degrees absolutely did did accomplish all that...and our neighborhood was filled with stay at home mom's and new cars.
This post was edited on 3/23/25 at 5:53 pm
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:50 pm to wackatimesthree
Dup
This post was edited on 3/23/25 at 5:52 pm
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:50 pm to RiverCityTider
Wonder Years looked a lot different for the Arnolds than what you describe here.
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