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Message
re: Here’s my problem with the idea of the civil war was fought over slavery
Posted on 6/17/20 at 11:25 am to BFIV
Posted on 6/17/20 at 11:25 am to BFIV
That is a major problem, real history, the good and the not so good is not longer taught in schools today.
Can you imagine a history class teaching what Lincoln really thought about slaves!!
How about the fact the Grant owned slaves!
Can you imagine a history class teaching what Lincoln really thought about slaves!!
How about the fact the Grant owned slaves!
1
Posted on 6/17/20 at 11:43 am to ValDawgsta
quote:
I don’t demonize average joe confederate soldiers.
This. Any large scale conflict, you can find good/normal people on both sides who happened to be born in the wrong timeline and had to fight for whatever cause. It is what it is. Better to stick to evaluating the overall causes each side represented, and judging the decision-making bodies on those merits (or lack thereof)
Posted on 6/17/20 at 11:47 am to BFIV
quote:
I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife.
But he doesn't mention husband.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 11:50 am to Diseasefreeforall
Civil war wasn't about slavery. Grant himself was a big slave owner.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 11:56 am to Nawlens Gator
quote:
Civil war wasn't about slavery.
It was.
quote:
Grant himself was a big slave owner.
Irrelevant.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 11:56 am to Nawlens Gator
It wasn’t about slavery for the north. It was about the fact the south seceded. The north didn’t start the war to end slavery. The south seceded in large part due to slavery.
The cause of the war was the south’s secession. The south seceded in large part the threat of Lincoln being elected and their thought he would end slavery. Even though he never ran on that platform.
The cause of the war was the south’s secession. The south seceded in large part the threat of Lincoln being elected and their thought he would end slavery. Even though he never ran on that platform.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 11:57 am to Azkiger
A couple of observations:
What was the literacy rate in the south? I assumed it was low, hence it was probably the aristocratic elites who wrote those constitutions to begin with---y'know the same folks who owned the huge plantations.
I imagined the common man fought for the confederacy for the same reason the Vietnamese fought for the Vietcong----they saw outsiders invading their homeland and wanted to do something about it. I'm sure General Sherman burning down Atlanta doesn't help things.
What was the literacy rate in the south? I assumed it was low, hence it was probably the aristocratic elites who wrote those constitutions to begin with---y'know the same folks who owned the huge plantations.
I imagined the common man fought for the confederacy for the same reason the Vietnamese fought for the Vietcong----they saw outsiders invading their homeland and wanted to do something about it. I'm sure General Sherman burning down Atlanta doesn't help things.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 11:58 am to Nawlens Gator
And grant want a big slave owner. Mostly ambivalent to slavery. He did have 1 slave in 1859.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 11:59 am to troyt37
quote:
Excuse me if the facts surrounding the issue offends you. That is what slaves were considered by those who bought and paid for them. If you are trying to extrapolate that into meaning that's what I believe, then you can frick right off. I'm sure that's a great tactic in some arenas, but that's about all it is. If the facts are too much for you, maybe you should find a Kardashian thread
It's also a fact they were human beings. You are purposely ignoring that and referring to them as "valuable property" to try and push the fallacy the civil war was about something other than slavery.
quote:
If you are trying to extrapolate that into meaning that's what I believe, then you can frick right off.
You said it, if you didn't believe it there is 100 different ways you could have worded it, but you didn't you chose that phrasing on purpose.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 12:01 pm to mgdtiger
Until the union enlisted AAs, the primary source for their soldiers were Irish immigrants who didn't want to fight the war to begin with. This was the first draft in our nation's history.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 12:02 pm to Jyrdis
Much more to it than that. Ever heard of the Corwin Amendment? LINK
Ever heard of the Morrill Tariff? LINK
I highly doubt that you and others will educate yourselves further by reading these links. And here are Lincoln's own words:
Ever heard of the Morrill Tariff? LINK
I highly doubt that you and others will educate yourselves further by reading these links. And here are Lincoln's own words:
quote:
"We are going to make tax slaves out of you," Lincoln was effectively saying, "and if you resist, there will be an invasion." That was on March 4. Five weeks later, on April 12, Fort Sumter, a tariff collection point in Charleston Harbor, was bombarded by the Confederates. No one was hurt or killed, and Lincoln later revealed that he manipulated the Confederates into firing the first shot, which helped generate war fever in the North.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 12:06 pm to sugar71
Secession should always be supported. Plenty of abolitionists supported southern secession. Keep in mind that West Virginia split from Virginia over the slavery issue.
The first state to invoke state rights was a northern state (I forget which one) over the slavery issue.
The first state to invoke state rights was a northern state (I forget which one) over the slavery issue.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 12:12 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
It could have been any issue that causes the South to attempt to leave the Union.
It certainly could have been any issue, but the issue was slavery.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 12:14 pm to tduecen
As a gainfully employed white cis male I say I am a 50% slave, as in 50% of my paycheck is taken away from me to pay towards others (state, federal tax, sales tax, charity etc)... that being said I have it pretty good. As in I don't complain, just work hard and try and be a good person. Its a very simple formula. Its amazing how the cops don't mess with you if you don't break the law.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 12:24 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
It's also a fact they were human beings. You are purposely ignoring that and referring to them as "valuable property" to try and push the fallacy the civil war was about something other than slavery.
Calling slaves valuable property, which is 100% accurate to how they were viewed by slave states, doesn't preclude even their owners at the time of also seeing them as human beings. You are forcing today's sensibilities upon people in a different time. I was clearly making a statement from their perspective. If you can't understand that, then again, frick right off. I also plainly stated that slavery was one of the reasons for the Civil War. Maybe you have a comprehension problem?
quote:
You said it, if you didn't believe it there is 100 different ways you could have worded it, but you didn't you chose that phrasing on purpose.
Holy hell, I chose that phrasing on purpose, because that was the perspective of one of the two parties in the conflict we are all discussing. I understand that this discussion makes you uncomfortable, and you would much prefer to make it about all the racists who don't share your opinion. Really pisses you off when someone tries to make you think rather than feel, doesn't it?
Posted on 6/17/20 at 12:57 pm to Damone
quote:
It certainly could have been any issue, but the issue was slavery.
Posted on 6/17/20 at 1:05 pm to notsince98
quote:
The union invaded South Carolina first.
That is a lie
Posted on 6/18/20 at 4:25 pm to BFIV
What President said that all black people should be expelled from the United States because they could never be full-fledged citizens?
What President voted for and praised a law which forbade black people from settling in his State?
What American President launched a massive invasion of another country that posed no threat, and without a declaration of war?
What President raised a huge army at his own will without the approval of Congress?
What President said that he had to violate the Constitution in order to save it?
What President declared the elected legislatures of thirteen States to be “combinations” of criminals that he had to suppress?
What President said he was indifferent to slavery but would use any force necessary to collect taxes?
What President sent combat troops from the battlefield to bombard and occupy New York City?
What President sent the Army to arrest in the middle of the night thousands of private citizens for expressing their opinions? And held them incommunicado in military prisons with total denial of due process of law? And had his soldiers destroy newspaper plants?
What President was the first ruler in the civilized world to make medicine a contraband of war?
What President signed for his cronies special licenses to purchase valuable cotton from an enemy country even though he had forbidden such trade and punished other people for the same practice?
What President refused medical care and food to his own soldiers held by the enemy country?
What President presided over the bombardment and house-by-house destruction of cities and towns that were undefended and not military targets?
What President’s forces deliberately targeted women and children and destroyed their housing, food supply, and private belongings?
What President’s occupying forces engaged in imprisonment, torture, and execution of civilians and seizing them as hostages?
Under what President did the Army have the largest number of criminals, mercenaries, and foreigners?
Who was the first American President to plot the assassination of an opposing head of state?
Who had the least affiliation with Christianity of any American President and blamed God for starting the war over which he presided?
What President was the first to force citizens to accept as legal money pieces of paper unbacked by gold or silver?
Who was the first President to institute an income tax?
Who was the first President to pile up a national debt too vast to be paid off in a generation?
Who is considered almost universally as the greatest American President, indeed as the greatest American of all times and as a world hero of democracy?
The answer to all—- Abraham Lincoln
Proving again- the winners of the war write the history
What President voted for and praised a law which forbade black people from settling in his State?
What American President launched a massive invasion of another country that posed no threat, and without a declaration of war?
What President raised a huge army at his own will without the approval of Congress?
What President said that he had to violate the Constitution in order to save it?
What President declared the elected legislatures of thirteen States to be “combinations” of criminals that he had to suppress?
What President said he was indifferent to slavery but would use any force necessary to collect taxes?
What President sent combat troops from the battlefield to bombard and occupy New York City?
What President sent the Army to arrest in the middle of the night thousands of private citizens for expressing their opinions? And held them incommunicado in military prisons with total denial of due process of law? And had his soldiers destroy newspaper plants?
What President was the first ruler in the civilized world to make medicine a contraband of war?
What President signed for his cronies special licenses to purchase valuable cotton from an enemy country even though he had forbidden such trade and punished other people for the same practice?
What President refused medical care and food to his own soldiers held by the enemy country?
What President presided over the bombardment and house-by-house destruction of cities and towns that were undefended and not military targets?
What President’s forces deliberately targeted women and children and destroyed their housing, food supply, and private belongings?
What President’s occupying forces engaged in imprisonment, torture, and execution of civilians and seizing them as hostages?
Under what President did the Army have the largest number of criminals, mercenaries, and foreigners?
Who was the first American President to plot the assassination of an opposing head of state?
Who had the least affiliation with Christianity of any American President and blamed God for starting the war over which he presided?
What President was the first to force citizens to accept as legal money pieces of paper unbacked by gold or silver?
Who was the first President to institute an income tax?
Who was the first President to pile up a national debt too vast to be paid off in a generation?
Who is considered almost universally as the greatest American President, indeed as the greatest American of all times and as a world hero of democracy?
The answer to all—- Abraham Lincoln
Proving again- the winners of the war write the history
Posted on 6/18/20 at 5:36 pm to Mithridates6
You should research these people:
- Antoine Dubuclet
- Justus Angel & L. Horry
- P.C. Richards
- The Pendarvis Family
- Marie Therese Metoyer
You might be surprised by what you learn and wonder what percentage of slave owners they represented during that time.
- Antoine Dubuclet
- Justus Angel & L. Horry
- P.C. Richards
- The Pendarvis Family
- Marie Therese Metoyer
You might be surprised by what you learn and wonder what percentage of slave owners they represented during that time.
Posted on 6/18/20 at 11:02 pm to Skeezer
Wish I had more than one upvote. 
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