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re: Hell is real. Non-Christians and unbelievers I would love your thoughts. I love you guys.

Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:39 pm to
Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46671 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

How many atheists live their lives like life has no inherent value or that there is no objective morality?


Most atheists don’t believe this

quote:

Yet people do consistently act in opposition to their fundamental beliefs about reality, at least certain aspects of it.



No they don’t, they act in opposition to their CLAIMED beliefs about reality. That’s the entire point.

quote:

Those people do exist, though.


Sure, and we diagnose them with mental illness and usually end up institutionalizing them for their own protection and the protection of others.
Posted by Rohan Gravy
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2017
20728 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:58 pm to
quote:

quote:
Masturbation? Oh, maybe 50 cents


I'll NEVER be able to get out of the red



“Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company”.....

Mark Twain
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
37106 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

When I die, frick it, I wanna go to hell
'Cause I'm a piece of shite, it ain't hard to frickin' tell
It don't make sense, goin' to heaven with the goodie-goodies
Dressed in white, I like black Timbs and black hoodies
God'll prob'ly have me on some real strict shite
No sleepin' all day, no gettin' my dick licked
Hangin' with the goodie-goodies, loungin' in paradise
frick that shite, I wanna tote guns and shoot dice


Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
37106 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

Nobody mentioned OP believes a dude who claims a worm hole opened up in his kitchen and he telaported to a prison cell with 12' lizards?
Posted by Rex Feral
Member since Jan 2014
16115 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

How did the admins let this go, clearly a religion thread which is banned on here.



I've always wondered why there isn't a religion page?

Posted by Corso
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2020
11789 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

it's somehow wrong or incorrect to talk about a belief as an absolute truth, then the same standard should be applied to historical science, where even with evidence, what is known for certain is few and far between. Much of what we "know" is essentially an educated guess based on interpretation of the evidence we have.


You're comparing apples to oranges. An interpretation based on scientific evidence and an interpretation based on belief with zero evidence isn't comparable
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46059 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

Most atheists don’t believe this
You're right, which is my point. They believe there is no God and that belief (or lack thereof) necessitates the lack of inherent human value and lack of moral objectivity, yet many if not most people (including atheists) live their lives as if people have inherent value and dignity and that there are moral absolutes. It's because they haven't thought through the logical conclusions of their presuppositions, yet I would not say atheists are lying when they make claims that aren't supported by their held beliefs or take actions that are inconsistent with those same beliefs. The same thing happens with Christians with their claimed beliefs vs. their actions. Everyone is inconsistent to one degree or another, but lack of consistency doesn't mean the held beliefs aren't actually held or that the individual is lying.

quote:

No they don’t, they act in opposition to their CLAIMED beliefs about reality. That’s the entire point
You seem to think that Christians are lying about what they claim to believe because they are not making the connection between the existence of Hell and the necessity of preaching the gospel to everyone. You're making a distinction between core beliefs and claims (and actions) related to those core beliefs as if they are fundamentally different things for most Christians due to lies or apathy rather than some other reason such as ignorance or lack of thoughtfulness. I don't see that. I see a lack of understanding about beliefs but I don't see intentional lying or deception about claimed beliefs vs. held beliefs as the rule.

quote:

Sure, and we diagnose them with mental illness and usually end up institutionalizing them for their own protection and the protection of others.
I think you're being too literal. I'm not talking about those who specifically work against their belief in gravity but the concept of acknowledging a held belief while acting inconsistently with that belief. It happens all the time and no one is entirely consistent, for many reasons. It's not a mental illness to miss a rational, logical connection between cause and effect in relation to held beliefs. Just think of the political rhetoric that is spouted by politicians where the cure only exacerbates the disease and where the solution only makes the problem worse. It's because these people don't see that the real-world application of their worldviews and presuppositions doesn't conform to reality, or at least the results don't logically flow as they expect. This is a lot more common than you're giving credit, and it isn't just Christians who act inconsistently.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46059 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

You're comparing apples to oranges. An interpretation based on scientific evidence and an interpretation based on belief with zero evidence isn't comparable
Of course they are because at the end of the day we're talking about truth claims.

All evidence for a truth claim must be interpreted because facts by themselves are not brute. There are many assumptions that go in to interpretations of evidence. You have to have faith to one degree or another when you're talking about things that cannot be observed because humans are not omnipotent or omniscient.
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12227 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:39 pm to
quote:

These,” scholars” do have a way of creating explanations to reach their narratives.
This isn't some BS liberal CRT thing. It's like first-year seminary for most denominations. Paul also only wrote 6-7 of the dozen biblical letters attributed to him. This is widely accepted by any Christian scholar of reputation. For decades, even centuries and millenia.
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 4:53 pm
Posted by ShoeBang
Member since May 2012
21914 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

Non-Christians and unbelievers I would love your thoughts


I'm pretty much in the "there's something out there" group, but I don't believe any major organized religion is "correct" or has all the answers.

The Sumerians had a savior dude that died and was brought back to life 3 days later, a flood, and say they were made from clay in the image of the gods. Thousands of years before Abraham much less JC.

There is probably some deity that invented existence, but personally I'd have rather never existed than deal with what I see on earth, so I'm not a huge fan of whatever it is. I try to be good to the other unfortunates that were forced to be here and await my time to find out what it was all about. Might just be more black void from whence we all came, but if being a decent person gets me somewhere good in the end. It will be worth it.
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 3:50 pm
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12227 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

There are many proofs
No
quote:

and arguments
Yes
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12227 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

personally I'd have rather never existed
If true, you can do something about it.
quote:

I try to be god
Maybe that's your issue?
Posted by AURaptor
South
Member since Aug 2018
11958 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:44 pm to
That’s nice. Self reinforcing opinion.

Certainly sounds like a rocksolid case to me!


* please note sarcasm
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 3:46 pm
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12227 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:45 pm to
(no message)
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12227 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:48 pm to
I can't remember if it was Sartre or Camus, but to paraphrase...

"Christianity is optimistic about god and pessimistic about man. I am optimistic about man and pessimistic about god."
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 3:49 pm
Posted by ShoeBang
Member since May 2012
21914 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

Maybe that's your issue?


Edited. Thanks for inferring that I should kill myself though. Super christian, just like JC would have wanted
Posted by civilag08
Member since Feb 2011
823 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:56 pm to
Don't ever let a Christian get in the way of the awesomeness of Jesus.
Posted by Demshoes
Up in here
Member since Aug 2015
10691 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:58 pm to
Where do I send my cash, check, credit card, Venmo, PayPal?
Posted by L.A.
The Mojave Desert
Member since Aug 2003
65468 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 3:59 pm to
quote:

LINK
I started listening to the video and he's wrong in the first 32 seconds.

He makes a big point about the Greek word for punishment in Matthew 25 meaning eternal punishment

But he misses the ENTIRE context of the passage. In that passage, whom does Jesus say will go into everlasting punishment? Jesus doesn't say it's those who "don't accept Jesus into their hearts"

This is what Jesus does say in Matthew 25 about those who will be punished:

quote:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’


The video is a textbook example of cherry picking Scripture to fit your theological beliefs
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 4:12 pm
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46059 posts
Posted on 4/28/21 at 4:04 pm to
quote:

quote:

There are many proofs

No
Yes, there are. The greatest, in my estimation, apart from the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit testifying to these things is the transcendental argument that says that the proof of God's existence is that if He didn't exist, we couldn't prove anything at all, including scientific and logical inference, or even moral absolutes.
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