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re: Hell is real. Non-Christians and unbelievers I would love your thoughts. I love you guys.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:31 pm to Revelator
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:31 pm to Revelator
quote:
According to the Bible, it is.
That's not how it works.
Like another poster said, Bram Stoker said Dracula exists so therefore he exists.
The argument above is functionally the same as yours in regards to god; I suspect you don't agree with it.
1
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:34 pm to jclem11
quote:
That's not how it works.
But that’s exactly how it does work.
Sure, you can choose not to believe, or say the Bible is fables, but you don’t have the authority of deciding which book Christians use for their theology.
quote:
Like another poster said, Bram Stoker said Dracula exists so therefore he exists.
Actually he didn’t. It was written as fiction
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 12:36 pm
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:35 pm to jclem11
quote:There are many proofs and arguments that exist and some are more convincing than others based on the person examining them.
Do you unironically think Pascal's wager is valid and compelling proof?
It seems no argument will be convincing to you, which is, it seems, where your primary concern lies. You don't think that particular argument is convincing, but it may be to others. I, personally, don't use that argument, but there is legitimacy to the concern about our eternal state and it adding urgency or importance to our commitments in the here and now.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:38 pm to Revelator
Are you really this dumb? I cannot tell anymore.
Please go back to logic class because you are hopelessly out of your element.
Please go back to logic class because you are hopelessly out of your element.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:40 pm to Tigerinthewoods
quote:
The only difference between a saved person and an unsaved person is that one has been forgiven and one has not.
As incredible as it may seem, all you have to do to receive God’s forgiveness is to accept it. Everyone gets the offer, not all accept it.
You don't seem to understand.
If you are walking down the street and see a child in the middle of the road, with a truck heading straight for them, what do you do? Do you keep walking? Passive;y call out and warn the child? Or do you run as fast as you can and literally tackle the child in an attempt to save them? Now understand that the concept of Hell is infinitely more horrible, dire and meaningful than this scenario I've presented. This is ETERNITY we're talking about.
Someone who GENUINELY believes in Hell with absolute conviction would do nothing but spend every waking moment of every day desperately trying to convert as many people as possible. And not passive conversion either, I mean tying people down and doing whatever you have to do to convince them of the reality of your claim. Anything less makes someone who actually believes this an infinitely greater monster than all the mass murderers of the 20th century combined.
But of course, our behavior bears the truth of the matter: The overwhelming majority of christians either don't believe this at all or have a superficial belief that lacks meaningful conviction.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:45 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:I disagree. Your concern is predicated on the assumption that people's actions are generally consistent with their beliefs.
But of course, our behavior bears the truth of the matter: The overwhelming majority of christians either don't believe this at all or have a superficial belief that lacks meaningful conviction.
All people--including and especially Christians--are sinners and are fallen, which results in our minds, hearts, mouths, and hands not acting in 100% accord with our beliefs. It can be due to a lack of understanding or enlightenment (not making the connection between the belief about hell and the urgency to witness to others), or due to our fear of man being greater than the fear of God, or it could be simply that our sin makes us not want to tell people the truth out of hatred or apathy.
Regardless, you're right in that Christians should be preaching the gospel to all people, yet the lack of doing so doesn't necessarily mean Christians don't truly believe it.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:48 pm to Revelator
quote:
Is it your contention that if a person believes what the Bible says about Hell, he needs to abandon every aspect of life not directly related to saving souls from going there?
Correct, that would be the only morally defensible position. Anything less makes someone who genuinely believes in such things an incomprehensibly sadistic monster.
The reality is that most christians give cognitive assent to the idea of Hell, but the lack of any apparent real world consequences of this belief and the tendency of the human mind to minimize the significance of things without observable consequence makes them incapable of actually behaving as if they genuinely believe it with any meaningful conviction.
It's the fundamental divide between belief in objective, observable reality and belief in theoretical realities that cannot be observed or evidenced for. You may say you believe in the reality of christianity in the same way I believe in gravity, but your actions prove this to not be so. I never do anything in my daily life that would suggest I don't genuinely believe in the consequences of it's existence, but you do things all the time that diverge from what you should do if you believed in christianity with the same conviction.
In other words, the religious can kick and scream about this all they want. The rest of us can just sit back and let your very existence refute your claims of assurance.
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:50 pm to Revelator
quote:
God is all-knowing and knew before the foundations of the world who would, or wouldn’t choose him if given the chance.
“This guy won’t believe in me, let’s make him Chinese lol”
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:50 pm to OBReb6
quote:
Yeah heaven sounds super lame
Which one has blackjack and hookers
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:51 pm to Roger Klarvin
One of the things I recall studying in Revelation was re-thinking that the end would not come before the Gospel was preached throughout all the earth. I do believe as Christians, we are called in the great commission. Some are called to til the earth, some to sow the seed, some to water and so forth. I took that to mean it was going to be the church (eklesia) that would be the last to spread the Gospel. One of the very humbling thing I realized was that once the church is removed, the martyrs are gone, the 144,000 are removed, even then God does not give up that even when these are all gone, and He desires to have mercy even Angels will warn those remaining on the earth in those days. Rev 14:6-11.
We know already that that even with that kind of warning many will not repent and turn to Him. Rev 16:11
We know already that that even with that kind of warning many will not repent and turn to Him. Rev 16:11
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:52 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Your concern is predicated on the assumption that people's actions are generally consistent with their beliefs.
Because they are
The mistake is yours for believing people consistently act in opposition to their fundamental beliefs about reality. Our brains simply don't allow for this.
We're not talking about someone who knows drugs are bad but does them anyway. We're talking about someone who believes in gravity but continues to try and step off buildings thinking they might not fall.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 12:54 pm to Roger Klarvin
We need an atheist snob board.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:03 pm to Giantkiller
quote:
I’m a Catholic, so I just ask for forgiveness and poof... just like that. I’m forgiven. Weee!
Well, that's not exactly how it works.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:04 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:How many atheists live their lives like life has no inherent value or that there is no objective morality? Everyone is inconsistent with their own beliefs and presuppositions and Christians are no different.
Because they are
quote:Yet people do consistently act in opposition to their fundamental beliefs about reality, at least certain aspects of it.
The mistake is yours for believing people consistently act in opposition to their fundamental beliefs about reality. Our brains simply don't allow for this.
quote:Those people do exist, though. Causation is a concept that is a struggle for a lot of people, at least applied. I'm not saying that every person is 100% inconsistent with every aspect of their lives, but I'm saying that 100% of people are inconsistent with at least some aspect of their lives compared to their beliefs, and for various reasons other than that they don't actually believe something they claim to believe. There's a big difference between lack of assent or belief to a concept and living your life entirely consistently with that assent or belief.
We're not talking about someone who knows drugs are bad but does them anyway. We're talking about someone who believes in gravity but continues to try and step off buildings thinking they might not fall.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:04 pm to Cajun Tiger 4
How did the admins let this go, clearly a religion thread which is banned on here.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:08 pm to m2pro
quote:
Hell is a foolish false reality in which to build a faith on. Fear is a TERRIBLE foundation.
Hell is a state of being, referring to it as a location or reality os a bit misleading.
quote:
Imagine a dad that chose to create you, set rules up
To have a functioning, observable universe, rules are a requirement. Additionally, "rules," or tendencies must exist to have free will. There must be both wrong choices and good choices.
quote:
rules up you cannot understand because you're mentally handicapped
No. We have to overcome our sins. We aren't handicapped (not all humans or the race as a whole I mean), we make poor choices and desire bad things. we can always freely choose something different. And yes, that means we all have to sacrifice and struggle to overcome our baser desires, but that's how we grow. It isn't limiting, it's liberating.
quote:
and then punishes you for eternity in a hell he literally created to suffer forever.... because you didn't understand X.
Choice. It's all about choice.
quote:
Sell people on Jesus's love. That shite is far more persuasive to build an honest faith.
Religions typically do. Jesus loves regardless. It's us who fail. He will always be there.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:11 pm to Cajun Tiger 4
I am starting to get in line with the idea that consciousness can transfer, but don't think there's a literal hell.
But maybe my next life will be spent in Bangladesh, which is hell.
But maybe my next life will be spent in Bangladesh, which is hell.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:11 pm to Cajun Tiger 4
op thinks his run-on blizzard of words is going to convince the reader.
hey, op.
how do you feel about the eastern Buddhist take, in which vibratory levels (red, yellow, blue) harbor entire realms and worlds?
hey, op.
how do you feel about the eastern Buddhist take, in which vibratory levels (red, yellow, blue) harbor entire realms and worlds?
Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:29 pm to CelticDog
quote:The Buddhist has to wrestle with the idea that in Nirvana, there are no distinctions. If there are no distinctions, that means there is no difference between Nirvana and not-Nirvana, which makes their system completely incoherent.
how do you feel about the eastern Buddhist take, in which vibratory levels (red, yellow, blue) harbor entire realms and worlds?
What they believe about vibratory levels makes no difference.
Posted on 4/28/21 at 1:36 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Correct, that would be the only morally defensible position. Anything less makes someone who genuinely believes in such things an incomprehensibly sadistic monster.
As I posted earlier, even Jesus took time off from his ministry to fish or attend weddings etc. Christians are expected to work, some marry, raise kids. How can someone do all of this and yet, evangelize 24-7?
Why would you place a standard on believers that Jesus didn’t maintain?
This post was edited on 4/28/21 at 1:40 pm
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