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re: Gun Control Discussion
Posted on 11/5/17 at 4:57 pm to PearlJam
Posted on 11/5/17 at 4:57 pm to PearlJam
quote:
w can anyone have an intellectually honest conversation about gun control with someone that believes a garden trowel is just as deadly as a gun?
I think Timoy McVeigh proved there are more efficient ways to kill mass amounts of people than using guns. In light of McVeigh how are you being intellectually honest by using your silly point as leverage to erode the 2nd amendment?
1
Posted on 11/5/17 at 4:57 pm to PearlJam
quote:
It is exponential easier to kill a large number of people in a short amount of time with a gun than with a garden trowel.
How about a truck? I'll bet thats an even faster way to kill a large number of people.
Posted on 11/5/17 at 4:57 pm to PearlJam
quote:
One is inherently easier to kill people with, especially multiple people in a short amount of time.
There is something missing, though. Something required for either to be used by a person to kill another person.
Can't put my finger on it...
Hmm...
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:00 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Why stop at firearms, then? How far are you willing to go?
It depends, do knives have any value beyond killing people, what about trucks? Bolt action guns/revolvers/shotguns have value for hunting and self-protection, I think fully automatic and semi-automatic weapons maybe be a bit of overkill in those departments. But like you said, we should make this an open discussion. So maybe, you should give some valid reasons why we need to keep them.
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:00 pm to PearlJam
It's inherently easy to kill someone in a 60mph speeding hunk of metal. #BanAssaultCars
It's inherently easy to kill people by blowing up a propane tank. #BanAssaultGasses
It's inherently easy to kill people with bleach and scalding water. #BanAssaultChems
It's inherently easy to kill people by blowing up a propane tank. #BanAssaultGasses
It's inherently easy to kill people with bleach and scalding water. #BanAssaultChems
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:00 pm to Robin Masters
quote:So are we talking about vehicles and bombs now, because that is a different conversation than garden trowels. BTW, where did I try to erode the 2nd amendment? It would be awesome if we could have a conversation without partisan talking points and strawmen ruling the day.
I think Timoy McVeigh proved there are more efficient ways to kill mass amounts of people than using guns. In light of McVeigh how are you being intellectually honest by using your silly point as leverage to erode the 2nd amendment?
This post was edited on 11/5/17 at 5:02 pm
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:01 pm to TheFonz
quote:
The guns have always been there. It's society that has changed for the worst. Gun control isn't the answer. Our society needs to take a hard look at itself and change for the better. I don't know what it will take to do that. We have to hit rock bottom, but no one knows yet what rock bottom is and that's scary.
As usual this is the real issue. What we know about progs is that they never ever want to address the true issue in any problem setting. All they want to do is attack some associated phenomenon that triggers their outrage de jour. No matter that their 'solutions' will only exacerbate the real problem - but it will get them a notch closer to their true objective of removing all choice and responsibility from an individual and transferring all that to the state - under their control.
The long march of the progs is a society modeled after an ant hill.
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:03 pm to Tyrusrex
quote:
It depends, do knives have any value beyond killing people, what about trucks? Bolt action guns/revolvers/shotguns have value for hunting and self-protection,
Yes.
So do firearms, and not just the types you mention above.
quote:
I think fully automatic and semi-automatic weapons maybe be a bit of overkill in those departments.
I disagree, but I'm willing to hear about all the experience that you have using firearms to protect yourself and others.
quote:
But like you said, we should make this an open discussion. So maybe, you should give some valid reasons why we need to keep them.
Sure.
The Constitution. Self-defense. Hunting. Recreation.
I can go on if that's not enough for you.
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:05 pm to Tyrusrex
quote:
It depends, do knives have any value beyond killing people, what about trucks?
Begging the Question Fallacy.
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:05 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Sure.
The Constitution. Self-defense. Hunting. Recreation.
Please do, tell me how any of these things can't be done with Bolt Action rifles/revolvers/shotguns?
The Constitution. Self-defense. Hunting. Recreation.
Please do, tell me how any of these things can't be done with Bolt Action rifles/revolvers/shotguns?
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:05 pm to Toddy
quote:Glad you asked.
How successful has it been in Australia since they cracked down after the massacre in Tasmania in the 90's?
I did some research on this very subject a few weeks ago in a similar thread. Here's what I found:
quote:
Overall, homicides are down significantly over the same period, from 355 nationally in 1995 to 273 in 2013, a decrease of 23%. So the big crackdown worked, right?
Well, sort of. Strangely enough, armed robbery hasn't changed much at all - in fact it's up slightly, from 5258 cases in '95 to 5628 in '13. Even worse, it spiked outrageously in the years immediately after the gun ban, more than doubling to 11,233 in 2001, before gradually decreasing to the most recent number (you'd think, with a significant reduction in the number of guns, that armed robbery would be almost nonexistent by now).
Oh, and since law-abiding females no longer are allowed to use personal firearms to protect themselves, it should come as no surprise that sexual assaults are up more than 50% since '95, from 13,099 to 19,907 in '13. But hey, guess the constant threat of being violently raped is preferable to the infinitesimally small but non-zero chance some nut job will start spraying bullets in your direction.
Of course, overall crime is definitely down "Down Under", and we can certainly point to the government's prudent action in making their citizens more free by taking away their most efficient means of self defense...of course that freedom doesn't apply to everybody: the incarceration rate in Austraila's prison has risen from roughly 125 per 100,000 adult population in 1995 to 208 per 100,000 in 2015, as the overall prison population has more than doubled, from 17,428 in '95 to 36,134 in 2015.
So yeah, fewer gun deaths, but about the same amount of armed robbery, more rape, and twice as many people behind bars - sounds like a great trade off to me. Let's do it!
Sources: Australian Institute of Criminology Australian Bureau of Statistics
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:06 pm to Tyrusrex
quote:
Please do, tell me how any of these things can't be done with Bolt Action rifles/revolvers/shotguns?
OK, but first, address this:
quote:
I'm willing to hear about all the experience that you have using firearms to protect yourself and others.
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:08 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
OK, but first, address this:
quote:
I'm willing to hear about all the experience that you have using firearms to protect yourself and others.
To be honest, I've been fortunate, that I've never had to use a firearm in self-defense. So now please answer my question.
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:08 pm to Tyrusrex
quote:
Please do, tell me how any of these things can't be done with Bolt Action rifles/revolvers/shotguns?
Wouldn't satisfy my needs or likes. Who are you to question that? Also, you'll have to remove revolvers from your list as they are semi autos.
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:12 pm to Tyrusrex
quote:
To be honest, I've been fortunate, that I've never had to use a firearm in self-defense.
OK, I suspected as much.
What qualifies you to dictate to me or anyone else what we should or should not use for self-defense?
quote:
So now please answer my question.
I already am.
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:12 pm to Tyrusrex
quote:
Please do, tell me how any of these things can't be done with Bolt Action rifles/revolvers/shotguns?
You have a hog problem. The hogs on your land reproduce like rabbits. When you hunt them, you want to get every fricking one of them.
A 4 shot bolt action won't cut it. A revolver would be tantamount to shooting spitballs. And a shotgun? You'd do more damage farting in their snouts.
Now, pray tell. What should I utilize to kill 8-10 full sized hogs before they scatter and run?
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:13 pm to Dale51
quote:
Wouldn't satisfy my needs or likes. Who are you to question that? Also, you'll have to remove revolvers from your list as they are semi autos.
So you're obviously a 2nd amendment supporter, What limits to gun rights do you think would be appropriate? I know this is extreme amd it is already, but do you think a .50 cal machine gun should be limited? What about fully automatic weapons? I just want to know what are your limits in gun ownership, if there should be any at all.
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:14 pm to Tyrusrex
quote:
What limits to gun rights do you think would be appropriate?
None. Do some research on how many legally owned fully automatic weapons have been used in a mass shooting In the past 50 years
This post was edited on 11/5/17 at 5:17 pm
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:15 pm to Tyrusrex
quote:
Please do, tell me how any of these things can't be done with Bolt Action rifles/revolvers/shotguns?
If I wanted to kill as many people in an enclosed place as fast as possible I would want a shotgun, so there’s that
Posted on 11/5/17 at 5:15 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
quote:
So now please answer my question.
I already am.
Not really, I asked how your goal to protect your rights to hunt and self-protection couldn't be accomplished with bolt-action rifles/revolvers/shotguns.
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