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re: Graphic video shows troopers stun, hit and drag black man before his death
Posted on 5/29/21 at 3:29 pm to L.A.
Posted on 5/29/21 at 3:29 pm to L.A.
The cognitive dissonance to these events are astounding.
On the one hand. our government is corrupt and a bunch of criminals - oh wait the cops lied and covered up a death in their custody for years - and they say, no big deal and nothing to see here.
On the one hand. our government is corrupt and a bunch of criminals - oh wait the cops lied and covered up a death in their custody for years - and they say, no big deal and nothing to see here.
3
Posted on 5/29/21 at 3:31 pm to RonLaFlamme
quote:Agreed. And the responses of some of the conservatives to this thread were a huge disappointment.
The cognitive dissonance to these events are astounding.
On the one hand. our government is corrupt and a bunch of criminals - oh wait the cops lied and covered up a death in their custody for years - and they say, no big deal and nothing to see here.
Posted on 5/29/21 at 3:47 pm to L.A.
quote:
Not sure what killed him, but it's clear to me that the cops beat the shite out of the guy when they didn't have to, and then blamed his injuries on the car crash. The cops tried for 2 years to keep from releasing the body cam
Yes, L.A., this was a grievous deviation from basically all applicable standards mainly by the 2 primary troopers. Extremely disappointing. Now, is mine even in the same major league ballpark as the majority of opinions shared herein, definitely not. But here's something for folks to consider: to fail to acknowledge the grievous nature of this particular incident would be and is an insult to the majority of officers who go out of their way the majority of the time to be complete professionals, and practice restraint in doling out the force they are entrusted with at their discretion.
Again, majority of officers, completely professional use of their powerful authority. They don't make it their policy to always endeavor to be complete professionals and very responsibly and carefully apply their powerful authority merely for the fun of it. The distinction should be drawn and they should be recognized for their exemplary work.
And there is no doubt whatsoever, that majority of other law enforcement professionals find this extremely disappointing as well. Because guess what? The next time they're out there and the dangers of interaction with the community are notably increased due to anger and distrust born from this and similar incidents, it is they who bear the burden of increased danger to life and limb.
Posted on 5/29/21 at 3:49 pm to L.A.
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/29/21 at 3:50 pm
Posted on 5/29/21 at 4:00 pm to davyjones
quote:
it is they who bear the burden of increased danger to life and limb.
This is quite clearly not the case. They shift that burden onto the people they are supposed to serve because they are 'scared'.
Posted on 5/29/21 at 4:10 pm to LSUconvert
I think it is the case, but maybe we aren't on the same wavelength. My point is that when this and similar incidents stew around in the public for a spell, the default position of that particular segment of society is going to adopt a much different set of expectations in any encounter with police. Regardless of what mine and your thoughts are as to the justification of that mindset, it doesn't much matter because the fact is that we naturally don't have any reason to adopt such a mindset. But for them, again right or wrong, many will adopt the mindset of "it's either me or them". Once again, whether right or wrong it results in the level of immediate danger upon initial contact by the officer exponentially increased. And that's something I'm sure none of us wish to be the case, for the officer's sake.
Then again, did I possibly take your post the wrong way to begin with? I've been known to be guilty of that.
Then again, did I possibly take your post the wrong way to begin with? I've been known to be guilty of that.
This post was edited on 5/29/21 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 5/29/21 at 4:28 pm to davyjones
quote:
Yes, L.A., this was a grievous deviation from basically all applicable standards mainly by the 2 primary troopers. Extremely disappointing. Now, is mine even in the same major league ballpark as the majority of opinions shared herein, definitely not. But here's something for folks to consider: to fail to acknowledge the grievous nature of this particular incident would be and is an insult to the majority of officers who go out of their way the majority of the time to be complete professionals, and practice restraint in doling out the force they are entrusted with at their discretion.
You’re wrong. Simply wrong.
Every instance of use of force was justified by the circumstances in this incident. Did you even watch the video?
The man resisted arrest. Officers gave verbal commands repeatedly. He still resisted.
They tazed him at least twice with no effect, and then verbally discussed between themselves to discontinue tazing since it wasn’t working.
The man continued to resist and would not comply with putting his hands behind his back. The cops then used body blows to the ribs to get him to comply. This is nothing new and an acceptable use of force.
After the man was cuffed and subdued, the cops on the scene where physically exhausted. While they were catching their breath, the guy began to move underneath a squad car. So one cop dragged him by the leg out from under the car.
Nothing the cops did to the man caused any significant injuries, and there was no indication the man was about to die.
He was a non-compliant a-hole who forced cops to use physical violence to subdue him.
There is no cognitive dissonance here. What do you think cops are supposed to do with non-compliant criminal suspects? Play patty cake and give them a kiss on the cheek?
Posted on 5/29/21 at 4:29 pm to L.A.
Posted on 5/29/21 at 4:47 pm to RonLaFlamme
Dumbass would be alive today had he complied with lawful command to pull over.
Want to see injustice, read about Jeremy Mardis murder by Marksville police.
Want to see injustice, read about Jeremy Mardis murder by Marksville police.
Posted on 5/29/21 at 4:53 pm to RonLaFlamme
The cognitive dissonance of seeing only crimes when done by some, but not others, is disheartening as well.
I think some of the reserved reaction we're getting to this old story is that so many times these wolf cries end up being quite different than what we've been told initially.
Like Michael Brown.
Posted on 5/29/21 at 4:54 pm to Mickey Goldmill
Double post deleted
This post was edited on 5/29/21 at 5:12 pm
Posted on 5/29/21 at 4:55 pm to Mickey Goldmill
Where is the liberal outrage for an unarmed woman murdered?
Only applies for a drug dealing whore whose boyfriend shoots at cops and she is killed when they returned fire?
Only applies for a drug dealing whore whose boyfriend shoots at cops and she is killed when they returned fire?
Posted on 5/29/21 at 4:59 pm to Jimbeaux
I most certainly am not wrong. First of all it's policy across this entire country that you don't leave physically stressed, handcuffed arrestee on his stomach, like they did. Especially an notably overweight one. Because it's universally agreed that that is a common cause of death in such interactions. Yes, just like happened here. And if you don't immediately sense the possibility of overuse of force just from the choice and delivery of language directed at the perp, then I suspect you may not understand what to be looking for. If this is a routine situation, why would you suppose that it was investigated to the extent it has been, both by feds and state? Oh and that was successfully prior to leakage to the public at large, so no it wasn't due to public pressure. Also consider this: one of the primary troopers involved killed himself as a result of these events, as terrible as it is. But in all likelihood an officer who is fully confident that he was in the right most probably would not have suffered that terrible fate.
I'll reiterate my previous position that the majority of interactions are conducted with uneventful professionalism, and my hat's off to them and their exemplary efforts. But extreme failure of a police officer to proceed properly is simply not a myth. It happens. It happened here. And I certainly wish it wouldn't have for all parties involved.
I'll reiterate my previous position that the majority of interactions are conducted with uneventful professionalism, and my hat's off to them and their exemplary efforts. But extreme failure of a police officer to proceed properly is simply not a myth. It happens. It happened here. And I certainly wish it wouldn't have for all parties involved.
Posted on 5/29/21 at 5:14 pm to davyjones
quote:
But extreme failure of a police officer to proceed properly is simply not a myth. It happens. It happened here. And I certainly wish it wouldn't have for all parties involved.
Absolutely. From what I saw of the video - Taser was used to enforce compliance, not in response to an actual or perceived thread. Excessive force appears to have been used to effect the arrest and then after Mr. Greene was cuffed, he attempted to turn onto his side and was forced back into the prone position. Finally, he was dragged by his leg shackles, apparently to enforce compliance.
Certainly leading the police in a high speed chase is inappropriate and causes the officers to be in an adrenaline fueled state (as would be expected of the suspect) and was the precipitating cause of all the bad actions that followed. That can't excuse the law enforcement conduct in this case which appears to have failed at every level once they engaged Mr. Greene.
Probably manslaughter for one or more of the officers at this point. Inexcusable.
Posted on 5/29/21 at 5:31 pm to L.A.
Pulling over when a cop is behind you is hard
Posted on 5/29/21 at 5:36 pm to Ace Midnight
It's literally as if you hijacked my mind on pretty much everything you said there. In particular, I read you loud and clear on the high speed chase and resulting adrenaline subject. So much so that I've given that specific thought, and conclude that the troopers' level of adrenaline would be completely more understandable (but not necessarily free from fault) in a highly charged foot chase situation. These actions could be a bit more "excusable" to a certain extent had that been the case.
And to your point about actions to gain compliance versus actions to thwart pending threat, most of the aggressive actions were as you said intended to gain compliance. I specifically point to what you hear over and over in the video "you better put your hands behind you back. You stupid motherfricker." As opposed to a frightened or frenzied "Hands, hands!! Let me see your hands!!" Which would indeed demonstrate genuine fear of a weapon being involved. But that wasn't what was demonstrated.
And once more I reiterate an overall support of these officers. I'm not judging them as people, only the actions. In fact, I personally know most of the deputies and officers and troopers that were on the scene that tragic night, save perhaps a couple/few. Probably the majority of the troopers, specifically, I've either called as a state's witness as a prosecutor, or cross-examined as a defense attorney, and I'll throw in perhaps having been pulled over for speeding by one or more.
And to your point about actions to gain compliance versus actions to thwart pending threat, most of the aggressive actions were as you said intended to gain compliance. I specifically point to what you hear over and over in the video "you better put your hands behind you back. You stupid motherfricker." As opposed to a frightened or frenzied "Hands, hands!! Let me see your hands!!" Which would indeed demonstrate genuine fear of a weapon being involved. But that wasn't what was demonstrated.
And once more I reiterate an overall support of these officers. I'm not judging them as people, only the actions. In fact, I personally know most of the deputies and officers and troopers that were on the scene that tragic night, save perhaps a couple/few. Probably the majority of the troopers, specifically, I've either called as a state's witness as a prosecutor, or cross-examined as a defense attorney, and I'll throw in perhaps having been pulled over for speeding by one or more.
This post was edited on 5/29/21 at 5:45 pm
Posted on 5/29/21 at 5:46 pm to L.A.
I was worried this was going to cause riots but everything’s been peaceful (peaceful for Monroe anyways).
Posted on 5/29/21 at 5:51 pm to DavidTheGnome
Same here, and I believe the difference is simply that the area involved is rural (Union Parish) and/or small size city (Monroe) that lacks any notable aspect of political wokeness. Just not that type area.
This post was edited on 5/29/21 at 5:51 pm
Posted on 5/29/21 at 6:58 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Taser was used to enforce compliance, not in response to an actual or perceived thread
You don’t know much about use of force policy, that much is clear.
Taser comes before use of hands. If a suspect fails to comply with verbal commands, taser is not only acceptable but often mandated by policy to be used before hands on.
Theoretically, it’s less likely to cause harm. Discomfort, yes, but injury, no.
quote:
Certainly leading the police in a high speed chase is inappropriate
“Inappropriate” he says!
It’s not only illegal and a felony, but also extremely dangerous with a VERY HIGH rate of injury to the public.
The cops were right in regarding this suspect as a high risk encounter based on the actions he took. While the cops language was profane and salty, the argument would be about the effectiveness of their tactics, but not the legality.
Posted on 5/29/21 at 7:01 pm to Jimbeaux
Also, there’s a dead guy.
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