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Message
re: Graphic video shows troopers stun, hit and drag black man before his death
Posted on 5/30/21 at 6:13 pm to Mrtommorrow1987
Posted on 5/30/21 at 6:13 pm to Mrtommorrow1987
Perhaps that's what is behind the training standards that warn against leaving such a person belly down after handcuffed, particularly when (1) there was such a excited physical incident as was the case here; (2) suspect is exhibiting strong indications of trouble catching breath; and (3) perhaps suspect has any other "symptom(s)" of excited delirium.
Thus, leave that cuffed suspect on his belly at your own risk.
Thus, leave that cuffed suspect on his belly at your own risk.
1
Posted on 5/30/21 at 6:30 pm to davyjones
Leaving him on his belly did not kill him. He didn’t die of asphyxiation. They eventually sat him up after like 3 minutes. Greene unfortunately killed him self and he bears all responsibility for his death.
This post was edited on 5/30/21 at 6:31 pm
Posted on 5/30/21 at 6:38 pm to Mrtommorrow1987
quote:
Leaving him on his belly did not kill him. He didn’t die of asphyxiation.
What did he die of?
Posted on 5/30/21 at 6:41 pm to davyjones
He went into cardiac arrest like 20 minutes later in the back of ambulance. People go unconscious when they are asphyxiated. You know when blood and oxygen arnt going to the brain. Greene was sitting up waiting for the EMS unit for like 10-15 minutes before he was even put into the back of the wagon.
This post was edited on 5/30/21 at 6:44 pm
Posted on 5/30/21 at 6:45 pm to Mrtommorrow1987
Has the coroner's findings been released yet? I'm honestly not aware. I'd be interested to see what's listed in the contributing factors section.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 6:47 pm to davyjones
quote:
Has the coroner's findings been released yet? I'm honestly not aware. I'd be interested to see what's listed in the contributing factors section.
No, it hasn’t been released to the public that I’m aware of.
This post was edited on 5/30/21 at 6:47 pm
Posted on 5/30/21 at 7:35 pm to L.A.
I feel so bad that cops have to deal with pieces of shite like that.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 7:50 pm to CDawson
Well they were beating the frick out of him
Posted on 5/30/21 at 8:02 pm to Mrtommorrow1987
quote:
We label it as cardiac arrest but no one causes it except their own actions.
So it’s not a diagnosis.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 8:04 pm to Numberwang
But that's sort of a big part of their job, and presumably they realize that going in. Yes, they do have more criticism and scrutiny directed at them these days which surely does add to the overall stress of the job, but that's all the more reason to either (a) do something else if those realities don't sit well with you, or (b) if you do take on the challenge of being a LEO this day in age, treat every interaction as if an audience of law enforcement experts are off to the side observing the event.
**And I say all that with the qualification that the reasonable perception of an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm trumps all. Of course therein lies the rub, what constitutes a "reasonable perception".
**And I say all that with the qualification that the reasonable perception of an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm trumps all. Of course therein lies the rub, what constitutes a "reasonable perception".
Posted on 5/30/21 at 8:20 pm to davyjones
@ Daveyjones:
What should have been the proper response to a perp that just lead you on a very dangerous high speed chase exhibiting zero care for the life of anyone.
Who then refused orders to exit the car, had to be forcefully removed from the car and then had to be forcefully handcuffed?
Once handcuffed, he tries to scoot under the car and is pulled back out.
I'm not sure what all of the arm chair quarterbacks expect the LEO's to do with someone like this? Greene obviously had no intention of cooperating from the moment the LEO turned on his lights for the initial traffic stop.
What should have been the proper response to a perp that just lead you on a very dangerous high speed chase exhibiting zero care for the life of anyone.
Who then refused orders to exit the car, had to be forcefully removed from the car and then had to be forcefully handcuffed?
Once handcuffed, he tries to scoot under the car and is pulled back out.
I'm not sure what all of the arm chair quarterbacks expect the LEO's to do with someone like this? Greene obviously had no intention of cooperating from the moment the LEO turned on his lights for the initial traffic stop.
This post was edited on 5/30/21 at 8:20 pm
Posted on 5/30/21 at 8:39 pm to the808bass
If I had to go to court I would testify to the patients symptoms and call it excited delirium. Just FYI. It’s a syndrome that causes cardiac arrest. It will always be labeled cardiac arrest.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 8:44 pm to CDawson
Well, I don't believe it's accurate to consider any of this "armchair quarterbacking".....I think it's legitimate debate on a very prevalent subject that's been thrust into the American public sphere.
To your questions, perhaps the best way I can think to address them is with a numbered hierarchy of tasks/duties of any LEO, in order of importance:
1) protect the general public from immediate threat of danger....that was checked off the list once the chase endeda and it was clear the suspect was advancing no further.
2) protect self and fellow officers from immediate threat of danger upon initial contact with suspect....this is a bit more complicated, but I haven't gotten the sense that during the efforts to gain compliance with handcuffing that there was a specific concern about gun or weapon within the immediate struggle. Thus IMO that aspect of the list was finished.
3) & 4) are effectively combined, IMO: achieve custodial compliance while ensuring the overall safety of the arrestee....this is where they ran into a big problem.
5) conduct themselves professionally so as to protect the integrity and reputation of law enforcement as a whole....another problem they ran into.
Conclusion, second half of combined items 4/5 was a failure and unfortunately the result of that failure was the worst case scenario. And to a lesser extent consequentially speaking, item 5 was clear failure.
**All JMO, I recognize that.
To your questions, perhaps the best way I can think to address them is with a numbered hierarchy of tasks/duties of any LEO, in order of importance:
1) protect the general public from immediate threat of danger....that was checked off the list once the chase endeda and it was clear the suspect was advancing no further.
2) protect self and fellow officers from immediate threat of danger upon initial contact with suspect....this is a bit more complicated, but I haven't gotten the sense that during the efforts to gain compliance with handcuffing that there was a specific concern about gun or weapon within the immediate struggle. Thus IMO that aspect of the list was finished.
3) & 4) are effectively combined, IMO: achieve custodial compliance while ensuring the overall safety of the arrestee....this is where they ran into a big problem.
5) conduct themselves professionally so as to protect the integrity and reputation of law enforcement as a whole....another problem they ran into.
Conclusion, second half of combined items 4/5 was a failure and unfortunately the result of that failure was the worst case scenario. And to a lesser extent consequentially speaking, item 5 was clear failure.
**All JMO, I recognize that.
This post was edited on 5/30/21 at 8:50 pm
Posted on 5/30/21 at 8:51 pm to Mrtommorrow1987
quote:
If I had to go to court I would testify to the patients symptoms and call it excited delirium.
The term “excited delirium” didn’t exist before 1985. In most cases, it is used to describe the death of someone in custody.
quote:
a boutique kind of diagnosis created, unfortunately, by many of my forensic pathology colleagues specifically for persons dying when being restrained by law enforcement
-Michael Baden
Posted on 5/30/21 at 8:52 pm to CDawson
quote:
I'm not sure what all of the arm chair quarterbacks expect the LEO's to do with someone like this?
Just don’t kill him.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 8:56 pm to the808bass
quote:
Just don’t kill him.
Why are you assuming they did when you don’t know that? Nothing in that video shows an intent or determination to kill him.
This post was edited on 5/30/21 at 8:57 pm
Posted on 5/30/21 at 9:44 pm to CDawson
I’m not concerned with intent.
Posted on 6/1/21 at 1:48 pm to LSU7096
I agree with your statement. Doesn’t conflict with my observation though.
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