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re: GOP Senator drops bill to federally outlaw all porn
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:09 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:09 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Define the movement and its specific limitations. it just seems like an ad hoc power grab with no guiding principles.
You don't have to look far to find a varying list of conservative priorities - Heritage, NRO, Federalist Society, so forth. Some I agree with, some I don't.
I don't think there is some definite value set of conservative ideas to pursue, but pretending to be free market absolutists as our guiding star (without actually doing anything meaningful to achieve it) has been an unmitigated disaster. We've lost ground on a slew of social/cultural battles while not really achieving economic goals.
We cannot hold our ground with neutrality as our core tenet. Much less make gain. Government should absolutely pick winners and losers - they're going to do so anyway, people should accept this, and we should fight to make sure they pick the ones that a) align with our values and b) happen to also promote the most general good/furtherance of American interests.
A government that protects young people from half trillion dollar tech companies that see them as cannon fodder isn't some insane intrusion. A government that protects the unborn and elevates the concept of the family as the building block of American life through pro-family policies and tax breaks and so forth is exactly what we should be doing. Married couples are objectively good in any sensible society. Families are objectively good and healthy for any state. Being unashamed of core ideas like this and having the government reasonably incentive the flourishing of those things should be how right leaning parties pursue this stuff.
To date, it's been:
Right: No intervention, free markets!
Left/Tech/Wall Street: How about limitless immigration, lots of intervention and we'll feed your kids toxic ideas in school and from the WH and in Hollywood and in media that make them more depressed, self-loathing, and lowers their self esteem, all while they get fat?
Right: No intervention!
Left: (does all of the above)
It's time for the hold outs on the right to understand that liberalism/libertarianism is no match for progressive politics. It's like PC and tolerance going up against radical Islam in Europe, you're just getting your arse handed to you year after year.
Some liberals, like James Lindsay, knew there would be an illiberal backlash - it was inevitable (yet he's still crying about it). Smart liberals, I think, need to just accept the reality that if you want something close to libertarianism you're probably going to need to cautiously endorse the counterbalancing forces when they arise and try and end up with something close to zero as a mediated midpoint. There really is no alternative. Purely liberal ideas winning the day against stronger, more entrenched foes is impossible, it's never happened, it never will.
1
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:20 am to TutHillTiger
Porn is such a nuanced issue for me. Morally speaking, I think porn is a terrible thing and is awful for human beings to consume. I also think the argument that prostitution is illegal but porn isn't because one has a camera on and one doesn't is dumb.
At the very least, I think the porn industry should be much more scrutinized and regulated than it is today. I'm not for a bloated government but I do think enforcing laws, particularly ones regarding the endangerment and sexual exploitation of people, is a legitimate role of government. For decades now, the porn industry has been saturated with one story after another of coercion, drugs, violence, suicide, rape, underaged sex, etc. and I think there is a responsibility of law enforcement to crack down on an industry that perpetuates these crimes. Study after study has shown the prevalence of sexual crimes being carried and supported by these online platforms like PornHub and it's one of the major factors that got me to stop consuming porn. Once I began to see behind the veil and see all of the rot that goes on in that industry, I couldn't continue to extract pleasure from an industry that does that to people.
At the very least, I think the porn industry should be much more scrutinized and regulated than it is today. I'm not for a bloated government but I do think enforcing laws, particularly ones regarding the endangerment and sexual exploitation of people, is a legitimate role of government. For decades now, the porn industry has been saturated with one story after another of coercion, drugs, violence, suicide, rape, underaged sex, etc. and I think there is a responsibility of law enforcement to crack down on an industry that perpetuates these crimes. Study after study has shown the prevalence of sexual crimes being carried and supported by these online platforms like PornHub and it's one of the major factors that got me to stop consuming porn. Once I began to see behind the veil and see all of the rot that goes on in that industry, I couldn't continue to extract pleasure from an industry that does that to people.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:22 am to the808bass
quote:
Do you think 10-year-olds have a Constitutional right to access porn?
No, but…
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:24 am to JiminyCricket
I don't even have opinions on how to attack these topics yet - but I think the idea that social media has fundamentally rewired the female brain and endlessly available pornography (both in the form of Pornhub, etc. and the general "pornographication of the culture") has rewired the male brain...is true. Candidly, I don't think many of us are immune, even those of us who acknowledge the problem.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:26 am to TheHarahanian
It's discussed a fair amount these days, and as a Christian I don't want to give license to it...
But I think making 12 year olds work for their vice is...much healthier. For starters, having to scheme and work and hustle to see a playboy centerfold reinforces the idea that it's a rarity, it's vice, it's not everyday life or normal in the way that a 14 year old browsing porn on his phone will never know.
But I think making 12 year olds work for their vice is...much healthier. For starters, having to scheme and work and hustle to see a playboy centerfold reinforces the idea that it's a rarity, it's vice, it's not everyday life or normal in the way that a 14 year old browsing porn on his phone will never know.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:27 am to SwampMonster
quote:
Pornography is not speech.
It’s evil.
I listened to Shawn Ryan when he had Josh Broome (former porn star that made 1000 films) on the other day and to hear of the behind the scenes reality of pornography was astounding. The way people are treated in that industry. The falsities of how they make the "sex" happen (numbing creams, injections, etc.) was disgusting to hear. I think it's just such a culturally acceptable thing these days and that makes it hard to fight. I got introduced to porn before I was even a teenager and it was considered very much normal throughout high school and college, all the way until I got married in my 20's. Just think of that timeline. If most are like me regarding age of exposure, which the studies indicate that to be the case, you've got over a decade of consistent porn use while your brain is in it's highly impressionable and developmental stages. Suddenly, you get married in your 20's and 30's and you realize what a problem you truly have, just look at how angry people get when their porn is threatened. It's like telling a drug addict you threw away their pills. Porn isn't harmless. It's not victimless. Porn is a dirty, rotten, violent and abusive industry.
This post was edited on 5/13/25 at 9:31 am
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:35 am to Smeg
quote:
We better ban guns! Think of the children!
May be better to ban gain-of-function research first?
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:36 am to TutHillTiger
I would vote to ban porn if it came up to a vote.
If you're a conservative, what are you trying to conserve? Freedom means having the choice to do what you ought to do, not the choice to do whatever you want. That needs to be talked about more.
If you're a conservative, what are you trying to conserve? Freedom means having the choice to do what you ought to do, not the choice to do whatever you want. That needs to be talked about more.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:38 am to TutHillTiger
This is what the GOP does and faux conservatives to appease the American masses. Instead of solving actual problems, they put forth idiotic social, fringe issues that don’t affect most Americans and know they will never pass. It’s stupid and one of the main reasons “conservatives” alienate a large portion of Americans.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:39 am to JiminyCricket
quote:Couldn't have said it better myself. And your experience was mine as well. Growing up is realizing just how evil and destructive pornography is to people.
Suddenly, you get married in your 20's and 30's and you realize what a problem you truly have, just look at how angry people get when their porn is threatened. It's like telling a drug addict you threw away their pills. Porn isn't harmless. It's not victimless. Porn is a dirty, rotten, violent and abusive industry.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:44 am to StrongOffer
quote:
Freedom means having the choice to do what you ought to do, not the choice to do whatever you want. That needs to be talked about more.
This has been discussed a lot in Christian circles (esp in the last few years) and increasingly in secular conservative circles.
For the conservative, I think we should view government as providing just enough structure to allow for families and communities to prosper and thrive, but that framework has to reflect the values that support the entire endeavor and were always prominent during the country's rise and flourishing.
Blank slate liberalism leads to divisiveness, tension and alienation - there is no way around it.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:46 am to StrongOffer
quote:
Couldn't have said it better myself. And your experience was mine as well. Growing up is realizing just how evil and destructive pornography is to people.
Shawn Ryan Show
Here's a link to the SRS podcast I referenced earlier. It's such a stomach turning industry. They treat these people 100% like nothing more than animals. Even down to the way their fill out their paychecks. They write in explicitly what the check is for just to make sure to humiliate you and expose you to more everyday people like bank tellers. They do this in part to ensure that you never try to do anything different with your life outside of porn. They feed on your shame. They utilize your worst aspects to exploit you. It's an awful industry.
This post was edited on 5/13/25 at 9:56 am
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:47 am to Rip Torn
quote:
This is what the GOP does and faux conservatives to appease the American masses. Instead of solving actual problems, they put forth idiotic social, fringe issues that don’t affect most Americans and know they will never pass. It’s stupid and one of the main reasons “conservatives” alienate a large portion of Americans.
Porn, social media, etc. probably have way more day to day impacts on families and American lives than the national debt or interest rates.
America has to be more than a piece of land for people of any background and mindset to come make money on
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:47 am to Smeg
quote:
All freedoms come with a cost. Just replace porn with guns and you'll see how foolish you sound.
You sound like a fricking retard.
“If I can’t watch gang bangs on my phone, I’m not really free!”
frick out of here.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:48 am to Pettifogger
quote:I agree. Would you say unfettered access to rape porn promotes family and community flourishing?
For the conservative, I think we should view government as providing just enough structure to allow for families and communities to prosper and thrive, but that framework has to reflect the values that support the entire endeavor and were always prominent during the country's rise and flourishing.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:49 am to the808bass
quote:
You sound like a fricking retard.
“If I can’t watch gang bangs on my phone, I’m not really free!”
frick out of here.
If you wanna see who has a problem/addiction with porn, just float out the idea of it going away. And yet, most of the people who get the most angry at the thought of porn going away will then argue with you that they don't have a problem with it and it doesn't effect them in a negative manner.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:50 am to TutHillTiger
quote:
Can we all fricking agree this is simply a no.
Drawing lines is something civilized societies do all the time as they evolve or devolve, depending on your perspective. There are all sorts of lines already drawn when it comes to sexual norms, so stop clutching your pearls.
quote:
but just pointing out you can not legitimately legislate morality
This is childish thinking. We legislate morality all the time, you just don't notice it because it's morality you think should be enforced.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:50 am to the808bass
quote:
Do you think 10-year-olds have a Constitutional right to access porn?
I don't care about them - I have a right lol
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:52 am to TutHillTiger
If porn ceased to exist tomorrow the world would be a much better place. Early access to the most extreme types of porn is twisting the male mind to where it will be hard for them to have normal relationships with women. With that being said, it is not really possible to ban it outright. I would support a ban, but I just don't think it would be possible. However, anything they can do to limit young boys' access to it would be a huge positive for society.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:53 am to StrongOffer
quote:
I agree. Would you say unfettered access to rape porn promotes family and community flourishing?
This is the cold truth, if you have been a consistent porn user for more than about 6 months, the odds are overwhelmingly stacked that you've masturbated to either one or a combination of videos that featured someone who was being coerced, raped, drugged, or is underaged. I choose not to plant my flag in the ground defending an industry that rapes and destroys the lives of women and men as well.
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