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re: For those wanting to live in a post-Christian America, how are you enjoying it
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:48 am to theunknownknight
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:48 am to theunknownknight
quote:
And that makes it less true how?
In and of itself? It doesn't, but it certainly lends a great deal of weight to it not being true.
quote:
With that said, there were plenty talking about this stuff. In fact, it’s talked about IN THE BIBLE.
The biggest issue of the early church was keeping Jews and Gentiles TOGETHER under Jesus as the Messiah promised to the Jews, not separating them based on lifestyle.
And why was it so hard to keep them TOGETHER? Could it be because gentiles were very different from Jews? I mean this goes back to even before Christianity. Look at what was going on during the time of the Maccabean Revolt. And what happened once the critical mass of gentiles was reached? I'd say it caused Christianity to become fundamentally different from Judaism.
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Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:48 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Today is the best day of my life. And should be the same for you.
Your joy will be temporary
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:49 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
("Judeo-Christian morality")
Which, in turn, is nested in a Babylonian morality....which, in turn, is probably nested in an ancient oral tradition morality.
Oral traditions worked. Regarding Babylonians, also on track -- partially at least; You're conflating TWO opposite moral directions or branches of early civilization (and "morality") into one.)
One of those two eventual branches or spiritual philosophies can be said to be "Babylonian" (Cain-Lamech-Luciferian.) Babylonian "morality" was anchored in the Serpent while worshiping "the gods" and Lucifer.
The other branch-fork was the legacy that broke away from Cain and became the lineage of OT/NT Hebrews-Christianity (Seth-Enoch-Jesus-Hebrew). They went in the Abrahamic direction.
quote:
Jews didn't invent morality.
True. But they did embrace and accept it's divine law, given we are told God wrote it upon the heart of ALL Men (as has already been stated here.)
The truth and the historical legacy has its roots and account in the Apocrypha as well as Old Testament -- written by Moses as transcribed by God Himself.
For those who may be non-believers the Biblical texts (and more about Evolution / pre-Adam man / Cro-Magnon and Old-Earth), the genesis of "morality" is obviously speculative.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:49 am to theunknownknight
quote:
But He didn’t throw out the Book. He lived it and fulfilled it.
Old Testament was old law. There is good reading and studying of those laws, but Jesus Christ fulfilled everything and changed everything at the Cross with his death, burial, and resurrection.
Knowing and Believing in Jesus Christ is the only thing that matters for every person.
The Church gets blamed for so much of society today, and unfairly, because the Church is not allowed to politicize.
Society's downward spiral has been the constant slide of government "blessing" all forms or immorality while rebuking those who speak out against it. It's no surprise that after gay marriage became law, that things slipped further into where today we question science and biology and let humans define their gender outside of actual science.
But The Word has been correct for all eternity. This world will continually get worse and spiral downward.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:50 am to theunknownknight
A law is an order from the government that if violated carries a penalty. In our law, we have misdemeanors, regulations, and felonies. They each have different penalties, but they’re all laws, and not following them comes with punishment. The Bible doesn’t just lay down advice, it has laws and penalties designed to create and manage a “perfect” society.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:51 am to kingbob
quote:
Alcohol isn’t denounced in the New Testament, yet a LOT of Christians preach against it.
There Isn’t a prohibition of drinking alcohol found in the entire New Testament. There is though many warnings to not be drunk or filled with too much wine.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:51 am to riccoar
Jesus fulfilled the prophesy, he didn’t suddenly throw out the law book. All he did was change the enforcement mechanism. The law was no longer in the hands of other men to judge, but rather God. God serves as the judge of the law rather than man. The law did not change, just the person enforcing it.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:52 am to Revelator
Feed them to the lions.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:55 am to kingbob
quote:
Alcohol isn’t denounced in the New Testament, yet a LOT of Christians preach against it.
Alcohol s called "Spirits" for good reason(s).
I don't know it the number of Christians is "a lot"; What is preached is, "Moderation". As we all know, that line gets..."blurred."
Jesus gifted wine (as a miracle) at a wedding of friends, so it's not "Alcohol" per se that is being preached against -- just its abuse.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:55 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
And why was it so hard to keep them TOGETHER? Could it be because gentiles were very different from Jews? I mean this goes back to even before Christianity. Look at what was going on during the time of the Maccabean Revolt.
And what happened once the critical mass of gentiles was reached? I'd say it caused Christianity to become fundamentally different from Judaism.
Nothing in your statement remotely addresses the idea that Christians were meant to be grafted into the root of Jesse as those who followed the fulfillment of God’s promises in Jesus.
Everything you stated relating to the division of Christians and Jews overtime is spurred on by historical divisions based on incorrect decisions, bad leadership, manipulation, and selfishness
Going full circle on this thread - what we see leadership is pushing on us today in this country as they seek to further and further divide us
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 10:57 am
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:58 am to Liberator
quote:
Yes, but exactly which ones? There is such a thing as context back then.
Is there a context where killing women and children prisoners of war is acceptable?
Where do you think Hebrews got the idea that non-virgins should be stoned on their wedding night or that old men picking up sticks on the Sabbath should be stoned as well.
quote:
AND...those people are...ALL Christians?? Some Christians?
Again, clarity and specificity needed. Making broad-sweeping accusations without context is like hitting the side of a barn from point-blank range and claiming, "NAILED IT!"
EVERY man is a hypocrite AND "sinner" -- if that's your point (a point Christians already acknowledge).
It doesn't mean the Law should be ignored when violated -- along with obvious law-breakers, does it?
Some people (along with "Christians") are nicking-up the Glass House while others are tossing boulders through them.
How's this for a Bottom Line?
If the question then becomes, "who can lead the *most* by example and as mentor of all laws?" Isn't the man who most abides in a (Biblical) standard of morality as the basis for good law and polite society in America help maintain a superior civilization?
Would you grant the same leniency to Rome and Romans? Maybe the ones you consider immoral really weren't true Ronans, or Chinese, or Greek, or Persian, or Egyptian.
You want to judge the Christian tree by the fruit yield its hypothetically (best case scenario) capable of producing, and wanting to judge all other trees by what they're actually producing. That's apples to oranges.
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 11:06 am
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:58 am to theunknownknight
quote:
If left over meat was for sale, it would go to market allowing hungry families an opportunity for food. G
Correct, but I don’t know of any meat presently being offered to idols and then sold at our local markets, so it’s a non issue.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:59 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Nothing in your statement remotely addresses the idea that Christians were meant to be grafted into the root of Jesse as those who followed the fulfillment of God’s promises in Jesus.
Everything you stated relating to the division of Christians and Jews overtime is spurred on by historical divisions based on incorrect decisions, bad leadership, manipulation, and selfishness
Oh geez. OK. Christians as a whole before theunknownknight came along were all wrong I guess. You should probably call yourself a Judeo-Christian and your religion Judeo-Christianity I guess. Based on your beliefs, it seems those terms would be apt (unlike using the term Judeo-Christian to describe Western Civilization).
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:00 am to Revelator
quote:
Correct, but I don’t know of any meat presently being offered to idols and then sold at our local markets, so it’s a non issue.
I never said it is now
I was just clarifying for the other readers that dietary laws were specifically addressed for Gentiles
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 11:06 am
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:00 am to riccoar
when was the world not spiraling downward? at 46 i have heard christians many of them family tell me my whole life how the world is without christ and he is coming soon to take his "children" home. 90% of my family is pentecostal and believe i am going to hell because i am not in "church"
The bible speaks of the horrible things that occured to people. How marny useless wars since since the writing of the bilble have been faught over "christianity"?
The bible speaks of the horrible things that occured to people. How marny useless wars since since the writing of the bilble have been faught over "christianity"?
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:04 am to kingbob
quote:
I feel like the stereotype of Catholics being biblically illiterate is an outdated stereotype from prior to Vatican II when the mass was in Latin.
That was certainly part of the problem, but even so -- it's an understandable and true "stereotype"; RCCs have long been taught to rely on priests and clergy for Biblical texts and guidance as "Intermediaries." They haven't exactly been encouraged to read The Good Book. Lately, thankfully that is changing.
The other major problem (going back hundreds of years at least) was the Vatican's insistence on restricting ownership of the Bible, expressly only within the possession of RCC clergy (under penalty of death or excommunication.)
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:05 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Oh geez. OK. Christians as a whole before theunknownknight came along were all wrong I guess. You should probably call yourself a Judeo-Christian and your religion Judeo-Christianity I guess. Based on your beliefs, it seems those terms would be apt (unlike using the term Judeo-Christian to describe Western Civilization).
Are you really that scripturally illiterate?
One of the biggest contextual drivers of the Apostle Paul’s writings (actually all the epistles) was what I have been saying.
This conversation is a driving point of the book of Acts.
I’m not saying anything new or “missed for 2000 years” unless you and everyone else haven’t opened their Bibles since Jesus ascended into Heaven
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 11:06 am
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:08 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Are you really that scripturally illiterate?
No, but I'm not a believer, so I don't ascribe ultimate authority to it like you do.
quote:
One of the biggest contextual drivers of the Apostle Paul’s writings (actually all the epistles) was what I have been saying.
No it's not. It's trying to come to terms with a lot of non-Jews adopting Christianity and fundamentally changing it, which is exactly what I have been talking about.
quote:
I’m not saying anything new or “missed for 2000 years” unless you and everyone else haven’t opened their Bibles since Jesus ascended into Heaven
You're describing Christianity in ways that Christians did not do as a whole for almost 2000 years.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:09 am to hawkeye007
quote:
when was the world not spiraling downward?
The thread isn’t about the end of the world, but instead, the decline of our Republic. Surely you’ve read of past societies who fell right?
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:10 am to Revelator
quote:
My thread is dealing with America, and our bill of rights is unique in that it’s guarantees us rights that are derived from a creator God.
bullshite. Reference to a god is only made in the Declaration of Independence, which was aimed primarily at King George who was religious.
The Bill of Rights are amendments to the U.S. Constitution, which is our actual law. God is conspicuously absent from same.
Which is why the common trope of "we were founded as a Christian nation" fails. It's an attempt at legitimacy through revisionist history.
Our founders were both deists and atheists. Regardless of their personal religious beliefs, they were products of The Enlightenment. They were also products of European history, which consisted of two millennia of sectarian violence and warfare.
We were not founded as a theocracy, but as a secular nation.
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