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re: For those wanting to live in a post-Christian America, how are you enjoying it
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:21 am to theunknownknight
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:21 am to theunknownknight
quote:
They should abstain from food polluted by idols, sexual immorality, the meat of strangled animals, and blood
This is true, but it doesn’t entail the minutia of the laws included in Leviticus.
Jesus himself warned against Pharisees who burdened down believers with laws they never intended to follow themselves.
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 10:22 am
1
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:22 am to theunknownknight
quote:
The apostle Paul agrees with you in Romans 2 - morality is God’s law written on every man’s heart so they are “without excuse”
I can get behind that.
But can we say that American values are based on a Judeo-Christian tradition, when those values themselves are based on an older tradition?
The 23 marble relief portraits over the gallery doors of the House Chamber in the U.S. Capitol depict historical figures noted for their work in establishing the principles that underlie American law. They were installed when the chamber was remodeled in 1949-1950.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:23 am to theunknownknight
quote:
works only biblically ignorant Catholics
I feel like the stereotype of Catholics being biblically illiterate is an outdated stereotype from prior to Vatican II when the mass was in Latin. For the last 50+ years, the mass has been said in the vernacular, and the rotation of scripture ensures that someone who regularly attends mass will hear the entire bible every few years.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:24 am to Revelator
quote:
Many of the Old Testament dictates such as dietary restrictions and such were meant for the Jews only and not for New Testament Christianity
Like I said, you pick and choose.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:25 am to theunknownknight
quote:
theunknownknight
You're saying all of this, and yet for almost 2000 years of Western Christian history and tradition, there was no talk of this stuff.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:27 am to Revelator
quote:There's always been problems in this country. Today is the best day of my life. And should be the same for you.
For those wanting to live in a post-Christian America, how are you enjoying it
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:29 am to Revelator
quote:
Jesus himself warned against Pharisees who burdened down believers with laws they never intended to follow themselves.
To be clear, Jesus was specifically rebuking the Pharisees’ fence they had built around the Law based on oral traditions
I generally agree with what you are saying - Jesus was teaching a more pure form of following God’s law based on the heart in how we love God and our fellow man. In context, He was rebuking the hierarchies they made for themselves around “which laws were superior”, “which teaching was the most important ergo who was the most wise sage”, “who is my neighbor in order of importance”, “what does cleanliness really mean”?
All those questions were heavily debated in those times. He addresses all of them.
But He didn’t throw out the Book. He lived it and fulfilled it.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:31 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
You're saying all of this, and yet for almost 2000 years of Western Christian history and tradition, there was no talk of this stuff.
And that makes it less true how?
With that said, there were plenty talking about this stuff. In fact, it’s talked about IN THE BIBLE.
The biggest issue of the early church was keeping Jews and Gentiles TOGETHER under Jesus as the Messiah promised to the Jews, not separating them based on lifestyle.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:31 am to Esquire
quote:
Like I said, pic and choose
Read Romans 14
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:33 am to Revelator
quote:
Many of the Old Testament dictates such as dietary restrictions and such were meant for the Jews only and not for New Testament Christianity
Interesting. So the dietary laws aren’t really laws, but the law against homosexuality (in the same book) and the advice against alcohol (from proverbs) is law?
Sounds like you pick and choose based on what’s convenient and aligns with your personal morality.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:37 am to theunknownknight
quote:
American Christianity has been a joke for decades
Yep, some crooks have figured out they can make a darned good living preaching from "the Good Book". Luxury homes, cars, you name it. You know the Jimmy Swaggart, Joel Osteen types.
I knew this guy. Always plotting with get-rich-quick schemes. One day, he up and abandoned his wife and kids. Just left them on the driveway at their home...literally. Care to guess what he did next? Yep, he studied the Bible and applied to become an Evangelical Bible Preacher. Problem is he couldn't preach worth a darn. But he still left his family. Yep, there's good money to be made preaching da Bible and wearing the cloth.
Believe it was parasites like this guy Jesus chased out of the Temple. Except I believe they called them money changers (aka money stealers).
This post was edited on 4/9/22 at 7:56 am
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:38 am to kingbob
You need to define what you mean by “law”
First, the word for “law” in Hebrew usually means “teaching”, and does mean that when referring to Torah (more appropriately “map pointing the way”)
Second, there is casuistic and apodictic law in the Hebrew Bible (just like the modern law system). The latter is not all necessarily the same either. There were cleanliness laws, societal laws, etc.
Which ones are you talking about? Because you’re conflating all of them.
First, the word for “law” in Hebrew usually means “teaching”, and does mean that when referring to Torah (more appropriately “map pointing the way”)
Second, there is casuistic and apodictic law in the Hebrew Bible (just like the modern law system). The latter is not all necessarily the same either. There were cleanliness laws, societal laws, etc.
Which ones are you talking about? Because you’re conflating all of them.
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 10:40 am
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:40 am to theunknownknight
quote:
They should abstain from food polluted by idols, sexual immorality, the meat of strangled animals, and blood
Do you disagree with the writings of Paul concerning food offered to idols?
1 Corinthians 8: 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do….
1 Corinthians 10: 31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:42 am to kingbob
quote:
Interesting. So the dietary laws aren’t really laws, but the law against homosexuality (in the same book) and the advice against alcohol (from proverbs) is law?
This is easily explained. The dietary laws, such as not eating shellfish, are not reaffirmed in the New Testament. The practice of homosexuality is denounced in both.
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 10:44 am
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:43 am to Zarkinletch416
quote:
Yep, there's good money to be made preaching da Bible and wearing the cloth.
There’s not really. That’s like saying “you can get rich selling (insert pyramid scheme here).” 5 people do. The rest don’t.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:44 am to Revelator
quote:
1 Corinthians 8: 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do….
1 Corinthians 10: 31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
Context is king - the question isn’t the meat itself, it was WHERE you ate the meat. To eat “food sacrificed to idols” you had to be at the orgy participating or condoning.
If left over meat was for sale, it would go to market allowing hungry families an opportunity for food. Gentiles were debating if the dictates from the Council of Jerusalem meant it was a sin to eat that food. Paul clarifies and says “no”
If what I just said isn’t true, I could easily flip the question back on to you: do you disagree with Acts 15?
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 10:46 am
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:44 am to theunknownknight
Cleanliness laws and orderliness laws are both laws. The penalties may differ, but they’re both laws meant to govern a just, orderly, reverent, and healthy society.
The dietary laws of the Jewish people are great advice for avoiding food poisoning and contamination. Those laws were never arbitrary and always meant to be followed. I don’t follow them because I don’t claim to have anything but a personal morality which I do not enforce upon others. I gladly pick and choose, if it sends me to hell, then so be if. I don’t claim to be anything I’m not.
The dietary laws of the Jewish people are great advice for avoiding food poisoning and contamination. Those laws were never arbitrary and always meant to be followed. I don’t follow them because I don’t claim to have anything but a personal morality which I do not enforce upon others. I gladly pick and choose, if it sends me to hell, then so be if. I don’t claim to be anything I’m not.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:45 am to Revelator
Alcohol isn’t denounced in the New Testament, yet a LOT of Christians preach against it.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:47 am to kingbob
quote:
Cleanliness laws and orderliness laws are both laws.
Just like cows and cats are both animals
If you don’t want to take the time to think the term “laws” and its implications through, that’s fine
But don’t expect a fruitful discussion or answer. A convoluted question doesn’t do anyone any favors.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 10:48 am to kingbob
quote:
Alcohol isn’t denounced in the New Testament, yet a LOT of Christians preach against it.
This is true, and, in principle, I disagree with them when they do
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