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Started By
Message
re: Exactly how did Zelensky start his war with Russia?
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:25 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I'm asking you for that document/fact.
I don't believe it exists and you're confirming that with the above.
I can’t confirm nor deny that such a document exists. No one without high level security clearance can be sure.
quote:
Again, why did they wait for Ukraine joining a completely different organization to start this conflict in 2013?
This conflict is an example of death by a thousand paper cuts. As usual, the globalists pushed and kept pushing until Russia had enough. Know those assurances had been made, why would the EU continue to poke the bear?
quote:
The EU is not NATO and offers none of the stated existential threats to Russia. The EU is what caused this conflict to begin in 2013.
What’s the point of continuing to knowingly push the envelope with Russia? What was to be gained other than destabilizing the situation?
2
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:26 am to jp4lsu
quote:
This sh!tshow started back in 2014
No.
It started in 2013.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:26 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:27 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
So one sovereign nation requesting to join an alliance is starting a war?
Finally, you finally understand something.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:27 am to TheShmoo
Going from memory, a pro Russian Ukrainian leader was booted out and Zelenskyy was voted in. The Russians wanted a Belarussian relationship with a Russian-friendly Ukraine. That didn't happen. Russians invaded. That is the reason Trump and Putin want elections now. They will get the right guy elected and all the troubles will pass.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:28 am to LSUGrrrl
quote:
This conflict is an example of death by a thousand paper cuts. As usual, the globalists pushed and kept pushing until Russia had enough. Know those assurances had been made, why would the EU continue to poke the bear?
"Poke the bear"?
You can use that language with NATO, implying an actual threat to Russia (due to the military connection).
The EU? It's just an economic organization.
quote:
What’s the point of continuing to knowingly push the envelope with Russia?
So Russia gets to dictate what economic organizations other countries get to join?
quote:
What was to be gained other than destabilizing the situation?
What's destabilizing about an economic organization?
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:29 am to John Barron
That deal Yanukovich was trying to take with Russia over the one from the IMF, the one that sparked Maidan, is starting to look MIGHTY good for Ukraine.
Ukrainian authorities expect the IMF will 'push' them this week to lower the UAH exchange rate, cut interest rates and raise taxes to cover the budget deficit
This was reported by Bloomberg, citing sources.
The Fund is proposing to 'inflate' Ukraine's budget revenues in UAH and make it cheaper for the Finance Ministry to borrow.
According to the newspaper, the IMF considers the government's current plan to raise taxes to be too soft. In particular, an increase in VAT is proposed.
Based on the results of the meetings, Ukraine may receive $1.1 billion.
It's what happens when you sell your country for a penny on a dollar.
Ukrainian authorities expect the IMF will 'push' them this week to lower the UAH exchange rate, cut interest rates and raise taxes to cover the budget deficit
This was reported by Bloomberg, citing sources.
The Fund is proposing to 'inflate' Ukraine's budget revenues in UAH and make it cheaper for the Finance Ministry to borrow.
According to the newspaper, the IMF considers the government's current plan to raise taxes to be too soft. In particular, an increase in VAT is proposed.
Based on the results of the meetings, Ukraine may receive $1.1 billion.
It's what happens when you sell your country for a penny on a dollar.
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Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:31 am to LSUGrrrl
Ok guys, let's put our thinking cap on, if Russia is all up in arms and worried about NATO on their border, why did they remove most of their soldiers/border guards from the Finnish border after they joined NATO?
The only correct answer is they actually don't care about that, but it sounds legit to people without critical thinking skills and thus they can try to use it to justify what's happening in Ukraine.
The only correct answer is they actually don't care about that, but it sounds legit to people without critical thinking skills and thus they can try to use it to justify what's happening in Ukraine.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:31 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
Going from memory, a pro Russian Ukrainian leader was booted out and Zelenskyy was voted in.
No. This is the common misconception, though.
Zelensky outed the purported Western puppet that replaced the pro-Russian leader who was voted out in 2014.
Zelensky beat that guy in an election in 2019. He has no relationship whatsoever to the purported Western coup, and, in fact, ended whatever influence was involved in that purported coup by winning.
quote:
The Russians wanted a Belarussian relationship with a Russian-friendly Ukraine.
This is true, which is why they started this conflict in 2013 by having their pro-Russian puppet thwart EU integration unilaterally when effectively nobody else was for this (I posted the data on the prior page).
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:32 am to aero1126
quote:
Ok guys, let's put our thinking cap on, if Russia is all up in arms and worried about NATO on their border, why did they remove most of their soldiers/border guards from the Finnish border after they joined NATO?
The only correct answer is they actually don't care about that, but it sounds legit to people without critical thinking skills and thus they can try to use it to justify what's happening in Ukraine.
Summarized, in picture form (2025)
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:36 am to TheShmoo
quote:Ya see, Zelensky isn't on board with open borders. He took offense when Roosky tanks rolled in. So then he started partying and begging for money to enforce his borders.
I missed that little bit of news three years ago.
Expecting your usual astute responses.
Might be too little too late though. He should have installed bigger walls a long time ago like maybe back right after the breakup of the Soviet Union.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Zelensky beat that guy in an election in 2019. He has no relationship whatsoever to the purported Western coup, and, in fact, ended whatever influence was involved in that purported coup by winning.
He is a victim of circumstance. There were a lot of political machinations going on before he was elected. He gets elected democratically and with overture to the west, he gets Russians on his borders. Russia would have just preferred a pro Russian Ukrainian leader to pull Ukraine in to their orbit. It is the Russian model. Aren't they working that angle in Georgia now?
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Zelensky beat that guy in an election in 2019. He has no relationship whatsoever to the purported Western coup
Oh this is fricking hilarious
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:42 am to Gifman
quote:
Oh this is fricking hilarious
It's not.
You can't argue there was a coup in 2014 and then argue Zelensky is the puppet of that coup when he literally ousted the purported Western puppet.
It's just an unfortunate fact that hurts the "The West instigated a coup" narrative, especially within the context of an invasion in 2022 under Z.
Just FWIW, Zelensky, prior to the Russian invasion, he had very strong ties to Israel/Mosad, and not the West.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:47 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
Russia would have just preferred a pro Russian Ukrainian leader to pull Ukraine in to their orbit.
That was Yanukovych
Putin just went a bit too far in 2013 and had to reassess his strategy. That's why, once he got Crimea because it was clear Obama was avoiding getting involve in Ukraine in 2014, he sat back until 2022 to invade. He reverted back to the typical Russian strategy of claiming "ethnic Russians are being attacked and we must save them" and then added in "NATO made me do it".
quote:
. Aren't they working that angle in Georgia now?
They already did...in 2008.
I think that was the first time Putin used the "ethnic Russians are being attacked and we are just engaging in peacekeeping" line.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:50 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Obama stayed out of Ukraine
ummm... the Victoria Nuland leaked phone call would definitely paint a different picture.
ETA: regarding the thread as a whole, i do not blame Zelensky. Putin is a bad guy and his invasion wasn't unprovoked, but also is not justified. Z was basically put in a puppet position between two competing powers and the US and NATO set him up for failure.
This post was edited on 2/19/25 at 10:56 am
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:54 am to 3nOut
quote:
ummm... the Victoria Nuland leaked phone call would definitely paint a different picture.
Yep. I’m suspicious that our resident divorce lawyer believes in the Easter bunny
Posted on 2/19/25 at 10:56 am to TheShmoo
Posted on 2/19/25 at 11:01 am to TheShmoo
quote:
by TheShmooI missed that little bit of news three years ago.
He ordered his armies to defend themselves.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 11:02 am to Gifman
quote:
Yep. I’m suspicious that our resident divorce lawyer believes in the Easter bunny
Liberal Brookings melting over Obama's refusal to get involved in 2014
quote:
As regards the two-year-old conflict between Ukraine and Russia, the president said Ukraine is a core interest for Moscow, in a way that it is not for the United States. He noted that, since Ukraine does not belong to NATO, it is vulnerable to Russian military domination, and that “we have to be very clear about what our core interests are and what we are willing to go to war for.”
It is hard to dispute these points…except that the president set up a straw man. The United States could have done more to help Kyiv resist the Kremlin’s aggression without a war with Russia.
Vox doing the same
quote:
President Obama’s speech on Wednesday in Estonia, a small eastern European country that reasonably fears it could be next on Russia’s invasion list, was a huge step against Russian aggression. Obama promised that the US and the other members of NATO (a military alliance that includes most of Europe) would fight to defend any invaded member state, including Estonia, as if it were “Berlin [or] Paris [or] London.” That is a big deal, meant to deter Russian aggression with the ultimate threat: war against the United States military.
But there was another message in Obama’s speech, one that was in the subtext but came through loud and clear, especially to Ukrainians: the United States and NATO will not defend Ukraine from the ongoing Russian invasion pushing across its border. The US is not exactly abandoning Ukraine — it still wants to help — but it is not going to do anything that would force the Russian invasion to stop.
obama has drawn his red line for russia, and ukraine is on the outside of it
quote:
President Obama has set a big, bright, clear red line for Russia’s military adventurism: the member-states of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The country’s inside of that line, he insisted, can count on US military support, and that is a big deal. But the countries outside of it, from eastern European states such as Ukraine and Georgia to Central Asian former Soviet republics such as Kazakhstan, are largely on their own.
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