re: Elon Musk says it is time to leave NATO and the UN

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Both NATO and the UN take a lot of US resources yet give us back nothing but grief, disrespect, and headache.

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Where did this lie originate? We wouldn't save any money getting out of either organization. That shouldn't be the motivating force.

Do we believe in helping to maintain the security in Europe that we gave so many lives to create - or not? Because our defense bill won't go down if we were to leave NATO.

What expenses are required by the UN? Why would we leave an organization that has put us at the head of the table with full veto power, and no real responsibilities? Where's the loss there? What do we gain by leaving? It isn't about money, so what is it about?

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All NATO members are required to commit 3% of GDP toward national defense.

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Reduce our contribution to the median of all countries. Those countries would have to put up more, raising the median which our contribution would rise comensurate. Start negotions with Poland and Hungary to move bases there.

It isn’t so much about money as it is the EU has used us as a de facto military defense which is unfair to us.

My opinion is that a new NATO be established but include India, Russia, South Korea, Egypt, Japan and whatever EU countries want to join. Make clear established rules that work in the new geopolitical climate, Russia can’t attack neighbors without authorization or be kicked out and have the alliance back the attacked country is just one example with military or trade embargoes. Put trade agreements in the alliance to make it more favorable for each country involved instead of just a military alliance. It may be a non starter to do but I’d imagine some of those countries would love to join that new alliance. This is just off the top of my head so of course it will have some not thought out flaws.

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Where did this lie originate? We wouldn't save any money getting out of either organization. That shouldn't be the motivating force. Do we believe in helping to maintain the security in Europe that we gave so many lives to create - or not? Because our defense bill won't go down if we were to leave NATO. What expenses are required by the UN? Why would we leave an organization that has put us at the head of the table with full veto power, and no real responsibilities? Where's the loss there? What do we gain by leaving? It isn't about money, so what is it about?

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The US has the same rights and privileges as the other permanent members of the Security Council, yet shocker, we contribute billions annually to the UN, significantly more than any other member nation.

The rest of what you posted doesn’t warrant a response as it’s all been addressed already in the thread.

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Do we believe in helping to maintain the security in Europe that we gave so many lives to create - or not? Because our defense bill won't go down if we were to leave NATO.

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How long do you stay in an agreement where the parties don't hold up their end of the bargain and you spend a disproportinate part of the ongoing expenses? Indefinately or do you renegotiate or threaten to cancel the contract?

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What expenses are required by the UN? Why would we leave an organization that has put us at the head of the table with full veto power, and no real responsibilities? Where's the loss there? What do we gain by leaving? It isn't about money, so what is it about?

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Other than having veto power, what exactly does the UN espouse that most of time has the interests of the US at the top of the list?

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the EU has used us as a de facto military defense which is unfair to us.

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How so?

Musk is right, IMO.

A global recession is underway and trump knows what's coming. The US Debt level has grown to Godzilla-level, ... completely unsustainable .... especially in a recession

The bloat must be eliminated immediately .... time is of the essence.

America simply cannot afford to support other countries in the same manner that we have enjoyed in the past

Those leaders that are tightening their belts are doing the right thing for their respective citizenry. Trump is putting America on a much-needed budgetary diet before the economic reckoning arrives.

NATO must go .... it is time.

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we contribute billions annually to the UN, significantly more than any other member nation.

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How much?

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The rest of what you posted doesn’t warrant a response as it’s all been addressed already in the thread.

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Not really, it's mostly misinformation about how funding works in NATO. HINT: Everyone is all paid up on their dues, and pretty much always have been, the US doesn't ever pay anyone else's part.

How so? What are the EU’s military capabilities? You think that’s protecting them or is it in fact the US threat of military? Germany for example refuses to strengthen their weak military being as we are their defense. We are their defense. 70% of NATO’s military spending is from the US. The other 31 countries account for 30% or 1% each in comparison. I get our economy is vastly superior but 70 to 1 is not a fair deal.

Edit, I know we will always spend more on our military but it’s time for them to step up and be able to defend themselves also

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you spend a disproportinate part of the ongoing expenses?

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Can you be more specific?

We're not paying more for our military than we would be if we weren't in NATO - indeed, our defense expenditures would probably go up if we were to leave.

People ITT think that it is required by NATO to spend at least 3% of GDP on defense - that isn't true.

People ITT think that other NATO members aren't paying what is required by NATO - that isn't true either.

People ITT think that the US is paying for other members - that isn't true either.