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re: Does anyone here on this board have the balls to say they oppose weed legalization?
Posted on 1/5/18 at 12:40 pm to TennesseeFan25
Posted on 1/5/18 at 12:40 pm to TennesseeFan25
quote:
or are contributing much to the world.
So?
Is it your belief the government should enforce laws just so we can be good little worker drones?
0
Posted on 1/5/18 at 12:44 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
you underestimate the value of no stress purchasing and extremely high quality/safe bud.
No I don't. However you are ignoring history. Again, the drug lords will counter with cheaper prices and promising new drugs on the street.
quote:
$45-55 for 1/8oz is not that bad......
It is if you are living pay day to pay day
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 1/5/18 at 12:47 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
Again, the drug lords will counter with cheaper prices
Won't matter, even if it does happen (which it won't).
quote:
and promising new drugs on the street.
Irrelevant.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 12:47 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
Again, the drug lords will counter with cheaper prices and promising new drugs on the street.
Only if the pot industry is over regulated and overtaxed. A freer market prevents black market competition.
We've posted a shite load of info showing prohibition creates black markets, and ending prohibition decreases violent crime
Posted on 1/5/18 at 12:47 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
RogerTheShrubber
You are proving my point.
- You suggested that ending prohibition made it safer, less crime. Yet your chart is mainly through WWII when most of the drinking age was over seas.
- The fact that the drug lords and mob turned to drugs and a spike began after people were returning from the war also prove my point.
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 1/5/18 at 12:59 pm to TennesseeFan25
quote:
I don't exactly correlate pot users with being pillars of society
I would have probably agreed with this a few months ago.
I recently went to a party out of town which was hosted by a physician friend who lives in a different town here in Louisiana. There were a few other docs there, a few folks I knew to be attorneys, a guy who owns a construction company, and a lot of other professionals. They had pot brownies on the table made from some weed product from out west. Hadn’t seen pot brownies at a party in more than 25 years.
That’s where we are these days. Things have changed.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:02 pm to Sentrius
I oppose:
Drugs
being fat
cigarettes
tattoos
extra marital affairs
But I don't think they should be illegal.
Drugs
being fat
cigarettes
tattoos
extra marital affairs
But I don't think they should be illegal.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:11 pm to Jjdoc
Nope. To gain the quality the states cultivate would cost the underworld correspondingly.
can they undercut? sure. But, it becomes a cost/benefit situation. Will some buy? yes. Will many buy? no.
I'll also contend that you are only focusing on those who are currently illegally buying. The vast majority of legal bud buyers will be better citizens and not drawn to street dealers when they can simply walk to the nearest, clean dispensary.
can they undercut? sure. But, it becomes a cost/benefit situation. Will some buy? yes. Will many buy? no.
I'll also contend that you are only focusing on those who are currently illegally buying. The vast majority of legal bud buyers will be better citizens and not drawn to street dealers when they can simply walk to the nearest, clean dispensary.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:17 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
Not a suggestion it's already been done and proven true Portugal did it 16 years ago.
And you would be wrong. legalizing it therefore ending arrests for the use of does not stop the effects, which is what we are talking about. The whole picture.
Your link even shows that the amount of people being treated for drug abuse was up 60%. Who pays for that?
During the time that's sited in you link, there was a global reduction in pot use. No other nation decriminalized it.
quote:
Peter Reuter, a criminologist at the University of Maryland, College Park, says he's skeptical decriminalization was the sole reason drug use slid in Portugal, noting that another factor, especially among teens, was a global decline in marijuana use.
But let's get to another area...
that black market is still there!
LINK
quote:
Two men and three women aged 19 to 30 were arrested by Lisbon PSP police yesterday as part of a crackdown on drug trafficking
Drug Trafficking? in the now adored model of drug utopia?
YEP!
Yes, the Columbians are still there.
Here is another
quote:
Right in the center of Europe, the Czech Republic recorded its largest drug bust ever in 2014. Customs officials intercepted 182 kilograms of heroin, worth $37 million, on its route from Afghanistan to Europe, known as the Balkan Route. The bricks, all 477 of them, were hidden among the cargo on a truck carrying kitchen equipment. The truck originated in Turkey and was probably heading to Portugal.
And another
quote:
A joint drug bust executed by Portuguese and Spanish authorities resulted in 2,600 kilos of hashish being seized in the operation that was carried out in the Spanish towns of Cadiz and Malaga (Spain) as well as in Lagos, Algarve (Portugal).
Here's a great one:
quote:
Death threats made by Earth Connection Portugal shaman, police bust for Cannabis and LSD
And another
quote:
The National Police said the leader, who was not identified, employed a network of Serbian ex-soldiers to bring cocaine in yachts and cargo containers from Latin America to Europe. The gang used companies in Spain and Portugal to launder the proceeds.
And another
quote:
International drug bust sees 28 arrested in Portugal
And another:
quote:
Drug bust in Praia da Luz
AN ENGLISH man and a Portuguese woman were arrested last Tuesday (October 9) on the A2, in Setúbal, on suspicion of drug trafficking.
And another:
quote:
Nearly four tonnes of cocaine worth an estimated $260m (£200m) have been seized by international law enforcement officers in the Atlantic.
The drugs were found on a boat between Portugal's Madeira and Azores islands.
How many more do I need to post?
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:18 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Only if the pot industry is over regulated and overtaxed. A freer market prevents black market competition.
It does not! Even in Portugal!
quote:
and ending prohibition decreases violent crime
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:19 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
can they undercut? sure. But, it becomes a cost/benefit situation. Will some buy? yes. Will many buy? no.
Then explain Portugal....
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:24 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
RogerTheShrubber
This makes no sense
The chart clearly shows a connection with prohibition and violent crime
-
You have no point.
Fact: people will always use drugs
fact: the illegal nature of trade is more dangerous than legalization
RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You are proving my point.
- You suggested that ending prohibition made it safer, less crime. Yet your chart is mainly through WWII when most of the drinking age was over seas.
This makes no sense
The chart clearly shows a connection with prohibition and violent crime
-
quote:
The fact that the drug lords and mob turned to drugs and a spike began after people were returning from the war also prove my point.
You have no point.
Fact: people will always use drugs
fact: the illegal nature of trade is more dangerous than legalization
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:27 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
You can have those things without legalizing drugs
You can create a brand new already established billion-dollar industry? Really? Explain what it is and how?
You can discover/invent a new, inexpensive, natural, nonaddictive pain medication?
Why hasn't that been done already?
Also, what exactly is this "undesirable" element to which you refer?
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:30 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
quote:You are proving my point. - You suggested that ending prohibition made it safer, less crime. Yet your chart is mainly through WWII when most of the drinking age was over seas. This makes no sense The chart clearly shows a connection with prohibition and violent crime
The chart is during the time we were at war. When the war ended and our troops begin to slowly come back home the rate started increasing.
The troops did not come straight home. They trickled in. A lot was held over for Korea.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:35 pm to Jjdoc
Hey, while you're posting your research, why don't you post some of the evidence you have for all those marijuana deaths per year?
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:43 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Now Roger, you stated that legalizing Bud light reduced the use. It did not.
I asked you straight up to show me the reduction in alcohol after the repeal. Reduction did not happen.
You asked what happened to the mob after the repeal. I answered. They imported drugs and drug use began to climb.
Then I addressed the legalization with verifiable facts that a black market is still in the utopian model of Portugal.
In fact, I pointed out that Portugal has had an increase of drug abuse by 60%. The state pays for it. When the recession hit, drug use spiked and no money was there for treatments.
At this point, it seems you are arguing for legalization based solely on desire.
I asked you straight up to show me the reduction in alcohol after the repeal. Reduction did not happen.
You asked what happened to the mob after the repeal. I answered. They imported drugs and drug use began to climb.
Then I addressed the legalization with verifiable facts that a black market is still in the utopian model of Portugal.
In fact, I pointed out that Portugal has had an increase of drug abuse by 60%. The state pays for it. When the recession hit, drug use spiked and no money was there for treatments.
At this point, it seems you are arguing for legalization based solely on desire.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:44 pm to Sentrius
I oppose weed legalization. I've seen firsthand what it can do to young people who have bought into the myth it's not a gateway drug and it's safer than alcohol.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:45 pm to Sentrius
Saying that weed is safer than alcohol because of the number of fatalities is sort of like saying that whitetail deer are more dangerous than a rattlesnake (Fatalities tied to driving and hitting a deer are more common than rattlesnake fatalities).
Alcohol is much more widely used... You need to adjust for outcomes/effects relative to it's use.
Alcohol is much more widely used... You need to adjust for outcomes/effects relative to it's use.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 1:53 pm to Jjdoc
Another thing Roger... While you can't show where the black markets have ended and that use went down, I can show you the history of Prohibition vs the use and effects before and after.
Alcohol consumption declined dramatically during Prohibition.
-Cirrhosis death rates for men were 29.5 per 100,000 in 1911 and 10.7 in 1929.
-Admissions to state mental hospitals for alcoholic psychosis declined from 10.1 per 100,000 in 1919 to 4.7 in 1928.
-Arrests for public drunkennness and disorderly conduct declined 50 percent between 1916 and 1922.
-For the population as a whole, the best estimates are that consumption of alcohol declined by 30 percent to 50 percent.
You stated Violent crimes increased. That's a Soros line. They did not.
-violent crime did not increase dramatically during Prohibition. Homicide rates rose dramatically from 1900 to 1910 but remained roughly constant during Prohibition's 14 year rule. Organized crime may have become more visible and lurid during Prohibition, but it existed before and after.
-following the repeal of Prohibition, alcohol consumption increased.
-in 2005, drinking was linked to 75K deaths.
And now you want to apply the same model to drugs that are way more damaging.
Alcohol consumption declined dramatically during Prohibition.
-Cirrhosis death rates for men were 29.5 per 100,000 in 1911 and 10.7 in 1929.
-Admissions to state mental hospitals for alcoholic psychosis declined from 10.1 per 100,000 in 1919 to 4.7 in 1928.
-Arrests for public drunkennness and disorderly conduct declined 50 percent between 1916 and 1922.
-For the population as a whole, the best estimates are that consumption of alcohol declined by 30 percent to 50 percent.
You stated Violent crimes increased. That's a Soros line. They did not.
-violent crime did not increase dramatically during Prohibition. Homicide rates rose dramatically from 1900 to 1910 but remained roughly constant during Prohibition's 14 year rule. Organized crime may have become more visible and lurid during Prohibition, but it existed before and after.
-following the repeal of Prohibition, alcohol consumption increased.
-in 2005, drinking was linked to 75K deaths.
And now you want to apply the same model to drugs that are way more damaging.
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