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re: Colorado is trying to disqualify Trump from the ballot

Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:10 pm to
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
63075 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:10 pm to
This is just an attempt to keep his poll numbers up.

‘Ronbots
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35932 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

Again, I suggest you read that document, rather than a generic internet definition of the term.


Why don’t you quote the relevant passage.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
63075 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

Jeb! and Paul Ryan told Rob! this would happen


It’s central to the plan.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

Could a textualist judge in Texas argue there is no standing for a case to remove him? And would that be a fair position to take?
"Remove" whom? I am going to assume that you mean "exclude" Trump from a Texas ballot.

The answer to your question would depend upon the identity of the plaintiff. Someone in Oregon would probably lack standing. A Texas voter would probably HAVE standing.
quote:

could a textualist judge rule in favor of a suit alleging Biden engaged in insurrection and remove him from the ballot?
Theoretically, yes. There would be nothing improper about a Texas voter FILING such a lawsuit, but there would likely be a problem finding any evidence to support the claim. If he could produce no evidence, he might potentially be subject to sanctions.
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
71203 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:16 pm to
quote:

A Texas voter would probably HAVE standing.


No I just told you the judge dismissed the suit for lack of standing. How is that wrong?

quote:

If he could produce no evidence, he might potentially be subject to sanctions.


Why? What evidence is required?
Posted by NCIS_76
Member since Jan 2021
5246 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

I had been thinking about the timing of the GOP nomination as a "trigger," but the same DOES seem to apply to the primary ballots.


I see a bomb being dropped by the democrats around the time the the GOP nomination rolls around to throw it all into chaos. It's going to be all about timing to disrupt Trumps nomination.

One question I cannot answer is, will some states wait until Trump get's the nomination to then afterwards try to remove him from their ballot? Is there a backup plan in place that the founding fathers thought of if certain states are successful in removing Trump from their ballots AFTER he receives the nomination?
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
89071 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:19 pm to
quote:

It’s central to the plan.


“We’re not gonna get him to drop out of the race. So we’ll keep him tied up in various courts fighting all sorts of civil/criminal litigation. That’ll not only drain him financially, it will hamper his campaign. Failing that, we’ll do what we can to have him removed from a sufficient number of state ballots.”

They keep coming from every angle. Ordinary common sense tends to make you ask why they’re throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, at a guy they’re not afraid of.
Posted by Nosevens
Member since Apr 2019
19331 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:21 pm to
Tell us of the charges that will be criminal that will hold up? Did Trump arouse criminal activity by suggesting a March to take over the government? They he suggest to arm oneself to defeat an enemy? Has he detailed a plan of take over? Or did he suggest that a VP send states back to view and replace if necessary electors? If he is guilty of this then why? Has the democrats not been guilty of freedom to express this themselves especially in last 3 republican wins? How about the infamous JFK electoral switch in Hawaii that was instrumental in his election? Would that be considered insurrection? This is stuff that’s been rehashed over and over but it’s not an invalid question. Because democrats are hasty in trying to block OMB from running do you not believe this is to similar to 3rd world politics? If Trump was kept off do you not think half the country might be a tad upset especially considering the stances of last 2-3 years on top of ploys proving allegations that have proved false? You know that democrats half used allegations of corruption in elections every time they lose in last 40 years
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

A Texas voter would probably HAVE standing.
quote:

No I just told you the judge dismissed the suit for lack of standing. How is that wrong?
If he could produce no evidence, he might potentially be subject to sanctions.
quote:

Why? What evidence is required?

At this point, I think that you are just asking intentionally stupid questions to be annoying.

Good day.
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35932 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:23 pm to
quote:

They keep coming from every angle. Ordinary common sense tends to make you ask why they’re throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, at a guy they’re not afraid of.


And they supposedly just had a record turnout for a POTATO based completely on people's disdain for Trump. Logic should dictate they would want him on the ballot. It would be a guaranteed win IF you actually believed the 2020 narrative.
Posted by Dday63
Member since Sep 2014
2393 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

I have been pondering any of these cases can be truly ripe until Trump is officially nominated by the GOP.


Since I was searching the Colorado site, Colorado law specifically says candidates in the primaries must qualify to hold office. Seems likely most states have this provision.

So, the way I envisioned this going down is that a SoS approves Trump's application to be a primary candidate, then someone petitions the SoS to remove his name based on 14(3), and then lawsuits ensue no matter which direction the SoS goes.

I'm sure the GOP also requires its candidates to be eligible to hold office, so one could also sue the GOP to eliminate him as a primary candidate.

In theory, these lawsuits could continue even if Trump is re-elected in an effort to remove him from office. I would rather SCOTUS take this up quickly.
Posted by VolcanicTiger
Member since Apr 2022
5933 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:26 pm to
quote:

At this point, I think that you are just asking intentionally stupid questions to be annoying.


Translation: My circular logic, like the ouroboros, has bitten me in the arse once again.
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
71203 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:26 pm to
I'm actually trying to squeeze a response out of you that leads me to believe you actually have thought out the position that you are such a strict textualist that you don't have to address any other logical questions around the practical application of this effort.

You've seemingly limited yourself to the opinion that someone CAN file suit to remove Trump from a state's ballot, which is something everyone understands. We're all talking about the legitimacy of such an effort. You likely don't believe it's legit but don't want to come out and say it because of who you are on this board.
Posted by jb4
Member since Apr 2013
13927 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:28 pm to
Given aid or comfort to enemies of the constitution seems pretty vague can all dems be banned if a sec of state thinks they fall into that category
This post was edited on 9/7/23 at 12:30 pm
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35932 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:28 pm to
quote:

In theory, these lawsuits could continue even if Trump is re-elected in an effort to remove him from office. I would rather SCOTUS take this up quickly.


In theory, running against an incumbent would qualify you for "engaging in an insurrection". No doubt if left to their own devices, dems will elevate this concept to the mainstream.
Posted by VolcanicTiger
Member since Apr 2022
5933 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:28 pm to
quote:

As usual, you are arguing like a petulant child.
That's a desperate attempt to dismiss me. If you stipulate to there being no insurrection, what in the 14th Am. applies to Trump?

Also, the lawsuits are inappropriate. No citizen has standing to remove someone from the ballot. Their remedy is their vote.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

I'm actually trying to squeeze a response out of you that leads me to believe you actually have thought out the position that you are such a strict textualist that you don't have to address any other logical questions around the practical application of this effort.
Then write me a comprehensible question, and I will try to answer it.

The first of the two questions just makes ZERO sense. None. Remove? Who? Exclude? Lay out the procedural status of this hypothetical case.

The second question is comprehensible, but just stupid (or perhaps ignorant).

Filing this hypothetical Biden lawsuit would LEGALLY withstand a motion to dismiss, because you could PROBABLY state a claim within the statute, but you would ALSO probably be subject to a prompt "no evidence MSJ." If you could produce zero EVIDENCE that Biden engaged in "insurrection," you might be subject to sanctions.
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
37352 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

the way I envisioned this going down is that a SoS approves Trump's application to be a primary candidate, then someone petitions the SoS to remove his name based on 14(3), and then lawsuits ensue no matter which direction the SoS goes.


Yep. That's probably the path across several states if I had to guess.
quote:

I would rather SCOTUS take this up quickly.


100% agree with that. I feel the same way about the indictments. All of it needs to be settled before anyone casts a general election vote.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:33 pm to
quote:

SCOTUS would shoot this down quickly


sure.

hes not yet stood trial.

gotta get that snake in court.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:35 pm to
quote:

If you stipulate to there being no insurrection, what in the 14th Am. applies to Trump?
JFC.

To rephrase, I do not believe the facts support a claim that Trump engaged in "insurrection." Others believe differently. That sort of disagreement is why the courts EXIST. The court might agree with me, and tell the SoS to leave him on the ballot. It might also agree with the plaintiffs, and order the SoS to remove him from the ballot.
quote:

the lawsuits are inappropriate. No citizen has standing to remove someone from the ballot. Their remedy is their vote.
Correct. The SoS has that authority, and the voters have standing to compel the SoS to fulfill what they see as being that obligation.
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