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Started By
Message
re: Church of England Priests Say Premarital, Gay Sex Not Immoral
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:43 am to Flats
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:43 am to Flats
quote:
The only rational worldview for the atheist is nihilism.
How do you figure?
Edit: Also, do you not believe religiosity is on the decline in Western societies? Or that higher education correlates with being less religious?
This post was edited on 8/31/23 at 10:48 am
1
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:46 am to djmed
quote:
The survey, conducted by the Times, found most Anglican priests think church teaching should be brought into line with public opinion on moral issues.
Ugh, that should be the other way around.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:49 am to Azkiger
quote:
Galloping away would be leading the charge decades ago. I think they're trying to hold out but are presented with accepting it and slowing the bleeding of their numbers or remaining against it and effectively cutting their wrists.
You keep posting as if polls and public opinions matter. Polls depend on who you ask, and how you ask the questions. Christianity has never been a popularity contest. It's my sincere hope that God is using this to destroy the thousands of churches that are doing the work of the devil, regardless of denomination.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:50 am to Azkiger
quote:
For better or worse society has accepted homosexuality. You can remain against it but be prepared for empty pew syndrome as fewer and fewer people share your opinion on the matter.
You don't have to be against homosexuality, but allowing them to get married in the church is a different story. They want to get legally married, fine, the majority of the world has no problem with them going to the courthouse or justice of the peace to have a legal ceremony. Not in the church where it goes against all scriptures and teachings. Jesus died so that our sins will be forgiven, but it wasn't so you could keep going on sinning.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:50 am to LSUBanker
quote:
If he was alive today heads would be rolling.
He's the root of all of this.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:51 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Not true at all. Each individual Christian is part of the "church", who is Christ's flock collectively. Jesus has a people chosen for Himself, not simply individuals with no relation to one another.
The message was always supposed to be individual and not collective.
The NT assumes a collective view of Christianity. The church is not individualistic.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:52 am to djmed
I repeat the syllogism as a mantra:
1. There was no such thing as gay marriage in any Biblical times. It wasn’t even a concept. Anywhere, but especially and relevantly not for the Israelites— God’s Covenant People.
2. Jesus would never have had occasion to condemn gay marriage. But he specifically rebuked the Pharisees regarding a low view of marriage, and affirmed what marriage is: a covenant among one man, one woman, and God. Matthew 19:4-6. He condemned not only sex outside of marriage but even lust in one’s heart.
3. Therefore, since there is not and can never be such a thing as gay marriage, homosexuality is and will always be a sin. We don’t have to get into the “ concupiscence” argument here. But there’s just no way around the combination of the Sermon on the Mount and the Judeo-Christian definition of marriage.
4. So, no true Christian can just wish this away to fit in with the spirit of the age.
Note: I didn’t even reference Paul, to avoid the prof/critical “Christians’” arguments that he was not an authoritative Apostle. He was and of course very specifically rebuked the homosexual and other sexual practices of the Corinthians.
Even if one doesn’t believe in Biblical inerrancy and/or Pauline authority, is there any indication that he has preaching these things in some bizarre anti-Hebrew/anti-Christian rebellion. No one I’m Biblical times would ever think that. It’s a manufactured justification of todays Babylonians and Sodomites.
1. There was no such thing as gay marriage in any Biblical times. It wasn’t even a concept. Anywhere, but especially and relevantly not for the Israelites— God’s Covenant People.
2. Jesus would never have had occasion to condemn gay marriage. But he specifically rebuked the Pharisees regarding a low view of marriage, and affirmed what marriage is: a covenant among one man, one woman, and God. Matthew 19:4-6. He condemned not only sex outside of marriage but even lust in one’s heart.
3. Therefore, since there is not and can never be such a thing as gay marriage, homosexuality is and will always be a sin. We don’t have to get into the “ concupiscence” argument here. But there’s just no way around the combination of the Sermon on the Mount and the Judeo-Christian definition of marriage.
4. So, no true Christian can just wish this away to fit in with the spirit of the age.
Note: I didn’t even reference Paul, to avoid the prof/critical “Christians’” arguments that he was not an authoritative Apostle. He was and of course very specifically rebuked the homosexual and other sexual practices of the Corinthians.
Even if one doesn’t believe in Biblical inerrancy and/or Pauline authority, is there any indication that he has preaching these things in some bizarre anti-Hebrew/anti-Christian rebellion. No one I’m Biblical times would ever think that. It’s a manufactured justification of todays Babylonians and Sodomites.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:53 am to troyt37
quote:
You keep posting as if polls and public opinions matter. Polls depend on who you ask, and how you ask the questions.
Support for gay marriage has gone from 41 to 78% in Britain in the last decade.
Same questions asked.
I'm not arguing whether they should or shouldn't conform. Just that they're being forced to choose between conforming or, eventually, closing their doors and preaching in their living room.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:53 am to 3nOut
quote:
While I’m sure there are exceptions, it’s not like I, as a Christian, enjoy saying “haha, this sin I don’t struggle with is bad and you’re condemned because you do.”
It would be way easier to win souls if the Bible was more permissive. But it’s not.
Exactly.
If all of the rules were convenient, following them wouldn't mean much.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:54 am to djmed
Millstones around necks.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:54 am to djmed
Why don’t they just abolish sin and tell God they don’t need him.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:55 am to lowhound
quote:
You don't have to be against homosexuality, but allowing them to get married in the church is a different story. They want to get legally married, fine, the majority of the world has no problem with them going to the courthouse or justice of the peace to have a legal ceremony. Not in the church where it goes against all scriptures and teachings. Jesus died so that our sins will be forgiven, but it wasn't so you could keep going on sinning.
I agree that the state shouldn't step in and force the issue.
But, if left to their own devices, it seems most churches will accept this in the near future. America will lag behind whatever trends are occuring in Europe, as we normally do, but it'll eventually be a thing here as well.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:56 am to Godfather1
quote:
Millstones around necks.
"Where did our congregation go?"
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:58 am to Azkiger
quote:
Tough spot to be in.
For better or worse society has accepted homosexuality. You can remain against it but be prepared for empty pew syndrome as fewer and fewer people share your opinion on the matter.
An atheist should be happy more are joining their ranks in accepting and cheering on the destruction of society, as that's all the acceptance of homosexuality brings. Due to it being an unsustainable form of societal growth. No matter how much people tell themselves that's not true.
Christians don't morph to societies will, no matter how much society will persecute. We'll be fine either way...in this life or the next.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:59 am to KAGTASTIC
These major "Christian sects" have been infiltrated by evil and not surprised its working.
Glad the SBC made a hard stance lately against some major churches. Not completely purging the SBC but it's a good start, and hope they keep weeding the evil out.
Glad the SBC made a hard stance lately against some major churches. Not completely purging the SBC but it's a good start, and hope they keep weeding the evil out.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:59 am to Loserman
This statement tells me you don’t go to church. There are a lot of churches that still preach the gospel. Find one
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:00 am to Azkiger
quote:
How do you figure?
How do you not? We’re just smart apes, and nothing you do matters in any cosmic sense. You can create your own versions of meaning and purpose, but then you’re doing the same thing that you say the religious person is doing.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:01 am to KAGTASTIC
quote:
An atheist should be happy more are joining their ranks in accepting and cheering on the destruction of society, as that's all the acceptance of homosexuality brings. Due to it being an unsustainable form of societal growth.
You think if we didn't accept homosexuality, homosexuals would just go into heterosexual relationships?
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:02 am to Flats
quote:
You can create your own versions of meaning and purpose, but then you’re doing the same thing that you say the religious person is doing.
Not quite. I wouldn't be calling them a Nihilist for doing so.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:04 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
I can tell you that a survey of English priests is not representative
of local Episcopal parishes in the U.S.
of local Episcopal parishes in the U.S.
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