re: Candace Owen's goes there. Vicious sneak attack on U.S.S. Liberty by Israel

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then this commenter should also agree that My Lai is indicative of the core nature of the US.

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You keep using My Lai as an equivalent to the Liberty attack. We were fighting an insurgency in South Vietnam. My Lai was an extreme and misguided attempt to fight our enemy. The Israelis knowingly and intentionally attacked an United States Navy ship - their ally. To compare or equate the two is, at best, erroneous.

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Gotta admit the clickbait title on YouTube was genius on her if the goal was to get this interview and story out to as many people as quickly as possible

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If "USS Liberty" were in the title of the video it's likely YT would have algorithmically flagged it and it would have been shadow banned.

I'm surprised this is news to you and a few others. It was even on Jocko Podcast two years ago.

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People come on here and act as though Israel is a great ally of the US



Do they?

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Yes.

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Or do they simply point out the very obvious fact that we have only one chance to benefit from any relationship to any degree with anyone in that very important region of the world and we'd be morons to not take it?

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No, but if we assume this as the position then it's foolish because we never benefit. We only take on risk and losses with that relationship.

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You don't see it because you blatantly refuse to. There's no helping that and there's nothing anybody can say or point to that will change it.

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There is no evidence that Israel is a true ally of the US. They allegedly have this immense intelligence capability but they were useless for the 93 WTC bombing, the 9/11 attacks, the USS Cole, the Beirut Barracks bombing, and they killed our people.

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Yes, and that is an asinine argument akin to saying, "The medical community wants us to believe that exercise is good for us, but exercise didn't prevent me from developing back pain and chronic allergies. It didn't keep EVERYTHING from happening to me, therefore they lied."

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If you had a strong argument here you would have made one in support of Israel's benefit to us - but there is no benefit to the US, so instead you mischaracterize my argument as one that claims if they don't do everything then they've done nothing. My argument is that there is no evidence they do anything beneficial on our behalf and that the consequences of our relationship with Israel is negative. These are facts.

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Who they thought were Egyptian.

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They knew it was an American ship. That ship didn't just materialize. It was on station for some time. They knew it was there. They knew it was American. They attacked it deliberately and any argument suggesting it was mistaken identity is destroyed by the sequence of events. Any fool out there can look at videos of fly by maneuvers by US aircraft during flight ops for carrier landings, for example, and you'll see that identification of a flag on a mast is extremely easy. Once that is understood, if you wish to evade that, you have to then suggest that the Egyptians had a vessel in their fleet that was painted like a US vessel, marked as a US vessel, and looked identical to a US vessel - which was never the case - and that during a war no one saw such a vessel leave port from Egypt and that Israel was never aware the US ship was on station.

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If you believe that Israel deliberately attacked an US ship rather than the official explanation, which is that the ship was initially misidentified and then once correctly identified that communication didn't make it to the combat commanders in time, great. Good for you.

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Nothing supports this.

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What does that have to do with Israel as an ally in (almost) 2025?

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Israel is not an ally. We derive no benefit from this relationship. And just as they did in the wake of the attack on the USS Liberty, they still seek to, and do, influence media and politics in this nation, and they have virtually all of Congress on their payroll via AIPAC. They have minders for people in Congress. This is not the behavior of an ally.

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The point being, things change.

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I get this, but with Israel, things have not changed. It's never been an ally. That is still the case.

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That "New Axis Of Evil" that Bush spoke of (for lack of a better term) is expanding and becoming tighter knit. China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia. They now are fighting together in Ukraine.

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This is dovetailing into another discussion but we - not you and I but assholes in DC - have created this mess for the most part. Also, NK is not in Ukraine. Russia has repeatedly, for 30+ years, tried to be on good terms with the west including the US. The DC Insurgent Class has foiled that the entire time since the USSR fell.

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As China's economic position continues to deteriorate, they are going to become more and more urgent and aggressive about expanding influence and dominance in the Middle East (and elsewhere).

Anybody who thinks that now is the time to abandon the only real ally (we give aid to several ME countries, but we do so not really to get much from them, I think we do it just to keep them from fully joining the "AoE") we have in that region over a 60 year old conspiracy theory is a fool IMO.

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Israel is not an ally and the USS Liberty is not a conspiracy theory. You may have minor point if Israel was an ally and we gained anything from that relationship. We don't. And Israel will be of no use in dealing with China. They've been of no use thus far and that will continue. Unless they resort to nukes, Israel will never take down Iran. They will never be able to stop China from establishing whatever ties it wants with Iran. To try and tie Israel to dealing with China is foolish. They will do nothing on that front. This is a foolish extension of your argument trying to elevate Israel's importance and seems like something from the Lindsey Graham email distro.

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Which is why, of all of the things that Trump acts from a populist stance on, he does NOT act from that stance when it comes to foreign policy.

Thank God.

Trump is not going to abandon Israel as an ally. It's not going to happen. Because he's not a fool. Not with regard to foreign policy, anyway.

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Trump is Israel's bitch. He is owned by Israel by way of Miriam Adelson. You can throw tantrums about that all you want, but that is the case. When there was a minor spat between them in his first term, I think over something a staff member said, he responded by groveling and begging for forgiveness and gave her the Presidential Medal of Freedom, and then promised her the world, and so she bankrolled this campaign. She didn't give that money for nothing. She is Israel First and she is going to get the same from Trump.
People keep trying to laud Trump on foreign policy. He caved on getting out of Afghanistan. He caved on Syria. He caved on the border wall. And now he is owned by Israel, who is in a war on multiple fronts in the ME and the drumbeat for war with Iran is getting louder. I'm hoping Trump does not completely have his head up his arse when it comes to Israel and doesn't allow Israel and the IC to take him to war against Iran, but he is dangerously compromised.
If he fails to do Israel's bidding, Miriam and AIPAC will let him know that all their dollars will go to Democrats in midterms, and they'll take Congress, and then the impeachment / removal game will start once again. Trump is severely compromised here. Ignore it if you want.

You keep saying Israel is an ally but you have yet to give any evidence of that or show how we benefit from that relationship. If that was true, at a minimum they would not require minders for people in Congress to keep them in line and then oust them when they refuse to bend the knee. If they were an ally, it would be readily apparent to the People and members of Congress how to view issues involving Israel as they would be mutually beneficial for the US at the same time.
I'm not sticking up for Jamal Bowman, but AIPAC made his congressional race the must robustly funded race in history, iirc, to get rid of him, all because he told them to go frick themselves. That is not the behavior of an ally. It's the behavior of a nation that seeks to undermine the authority of the American People for its own benefit.

LINK

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US Navy split up the survivors to separate duty stations

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Wow, that never happens with the general "needs of the Navy." I'd like to see your source. This is the same Navy that thought sticking one of my parents in Japan, and the other in Korea was "same duty station," in the 80s, right?

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He, (Trump) is owned by Israel, as is almost everyone in Congress.

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Any solid factual evidence of that statement?

We have to remember the very powerful entities he is up against to wrestle control from those evil ones.

The ones that caused that snake LBJ to make the statement he did.

There is a quote from the Q posts that said, "saving Israel for last" and "not mentioned once, for a reason",

There is plenty of evidence of Trump harboring No Love for Bibi

Have you seen what his pick for Attorney General has had to say recently?

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If you believe that Israel deliberately attacked an US ship rather than the official explanation, which is that the ship was initially misidentified and then once correctly identified that communication didn't make it to the combat commanders in time, great. Good for you.

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This dude works for AIPAC or something. It's the only explanation for that level of cuckery.

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That "New Axis Of Evil" that Bush spoke of (for lack of a better term) is expanding and becoming tighter knit. China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia. They now are fighting together in Ukraine.

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Quick! Look over here! China, NK, Russia, OH MY!!

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If he fails to do Israel's bidding, Miriam and AIPAC will let him know that all their dollars will go to Democrats in midterms

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80% of them voted for Kamala anyway.